Manhattan Reefs - View Single Post - A Great Opportunity for the Community to Give Back

clarionreef · 01-03-2008, 11:42 PM

Hi folks,

1) Given the long list of places you just mentioned that already follow sound net caught fishery practices, why do we need another area opened at all?
Its what local people want and anyone who comes over will see this clearly. I have already. They are anxious and waiting.
The fish diversity there has a lot of things you don't get elsewhere and since nearly all the blueface angels, majestic, blue tangs and clown triggers in the trade are cyanided, it is the only place remaining to get them done properly without killing the corals.
The corruption that everyones looking for already is what our industry is based on and what fills so many stores today. New Guinea can show a better way to do things.

To some this just seems like a well couched way to rape more reef for profit.
Thats the current system that we have. The system that stocks peoples tanks today. To some who need to find fault and evil in everything they behold, there are few things that could appease them, let alone the truth.
The trade is pretty much unsustainable as it now stands in the biggest supplier countrys and the hobby and trade have done little except reward the cyanide system with constant subsidy and hardly a thought.
The trade has come close to serious restrictions already and more will threaten soon in a Democratic white house when the US Coral Reef Task Force reconvenes.

Wouldn't it be time better spent to educate hobbyists about choosing fish from these already existing areas
Educating hobbyists from the field perspective is not easy. It seems alien to many. For things not understood, as in ballot measures for example; people often vote no. Tonga and Vanuatu are not Marshalls and Tahiti. Diversity circles the globe and changes w/ every degree of longitude.
The huge share of the trades fish come from S.E.Asia and two out of three of the sources are polluted with heavy trade in cyanide fish, which should be more of an embarrassment to people who care.

why not work towards reforming cyanide areas?
As in the past 25 years? When the green NGOs started covering for the cyanide trade, and when training programs mis-fired for so long without gaining traction the spare time to save a lot of reef was lost.
I was recruited for this job due to my opposition to the cyanide trade and constant campaign for doing it right.
In short, "let them continue to ruin what is already ruined and leave the pristine stuff alone".
Let them continue to "ruin what is already ruined???" Did you say that?
Why not give those places a beak and provide from elsewhere?
Besides....what pristine stuff?
As already explained well...the fishers are stuck within their own management areas...ie. turf...which are not the pristine areas.
They have to manage their already worked over areas and reap the tropical fish as ignored excess. The excess is a delightful consequence of lheavy predator control ie. fishing down the most popular food fish.
Tropicals are what they have left to make a living on. A point lost on many people in the West who do not see the peoples welfare as nearly as much an issue as the reefs that feed them.

2) The case for hobbyist "investors" as a small but significant part of the plan is not hitting home with many people. What are you really after here?
You mean besides taking Joe up on his invite and posting after he already started the thread??
Some netting material and witnesses to the coming training program.

Making sure there is a public to buy the product once it is available?
Huh? Why then pitch to a single group? We are still pretty much a secret and need to remain so until much work is finished. I did not approach the club. Joe Russo did and thought the club would like to be apart of something like this and help out some.
For his initiative, I am grateful.

01-03-2008, 11:42 PM	#107
clarionreef Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 40 Reefer Ratings: (0) Friends: (0)	more news Hi folks, 1) Given the long list of places you just mentioned that already follow sound net caught fishery practices, why do we need another area opened at all? Its what local people want and anyone who comes over will see this clearly. I have already. They are anxious and waiting. The fish diversity there has a lot of things you don't get elsewhere and since nearly all the blueface angels, majestic, blue tangs and clown triggers in the trade are cyanided, it is the only place remaining to get them done properly without killing the corals. The corruption that everyones looking for already is what our industry is based on and what fills so many stores today. New Guinea can show a better way to do things. To some this just seems like a well couched way to rape more reef for profit. Thats the current system that we have. The system that stocks peoples tanks today. To some who need to find fault and evil in everything they behold, there are few things that could appease them, let alone the truth. The trade is pretty much unsustainable as it now stands in the biggest supplier countrys and the hobby and trade have done little except reward the cyanide system with constant subsidy and hardly a thought. The trade has come close to serious restrictions already and more will threaten soon in a Democratic white house when the US Coral Reef Task Force reconvenes. Wouldn't it be time better spent to educate hobbyists about choosing fish from these already existing areas Educating hobbyists from the field perspective is not easy. It seems alien to many. For things not understood, as in ballot measures for example; people often vote no. Tonga and Vanuatu are not Marshalls and Tahiti. Diversity circles the globe and changes w/ every degree of longitude. The huge share of the trades fish come from S.E.Asia and two out of three of the sources are polluted with heavy trade in cyanide fish, which should be more of an embarrassment to people who care. why not work towards reforming cyanide areas? As in the past 25 years? When the green NGOs started covering for the cyanide trade, and when training programs mis-fired for so long without gaining traction the spare time to save a lot of reef was lost. I was recruited for this job due to my opposition to the cyanide trade and constant campaign for doing it right. In short, "let them continue to ruin what is already ruined and leave the pristine stuff alone". Let them continue to "ruin what is already ruined???" Did you say that? Why not give those places a beak and provide from elsewhere? Besides....what pristine stuff? As already explained well...the fishers are stuck within their own management areas...ie. turf...which are not the pristine areas. They have to manage their already worked over areas and reap the tropical fish as ignored excess. The excess is a delightful consequence of lheavy predator control ie. fishing down the most popular food fish. Tropicals are what they have left to make a living on. A point lost on many people in the West who do not see the peoples welfare as nearly as much an issue as the reefs that feed them. 2) The case for hobbyist "investors" as a small but significant part of the plan is not hitting home with many people. What are you really after here? You mean besides taking Joe up on his invite and posting after he already started the thread?? Some netting material and witnesses to the coming training program. Making sure there is a public to buy the product once it is available? Huh? Why then pitch to a single group? We are still pretty much a secret and need to remain so until much work is finished. I did not approach the club. Joe Russo did and thought the club would like to be apart of something like this and help out some. For his initiative, I am grateful.