The Great Zoanthid Experiment

digitalreefer · 08-21-2006, 02:19 AM

There seems to be a great deal of information not known about zoanthids. Some say the number of species is 300 others say it's closer to 60. No one seems to be sure which species host palytoxin and which ones do not. Unfortunately, I can not study these things, but I can study the effects of food on zoanthids.

I am considering starting an experiment to prove the effects of regular feedings on various zoanthid colonies. The experiment would consist of two tanks set up identically with numerous zoanthid colonies of equal polyp count in each tank. Nutrient levels would be monitored on a daily basis to avoid a disparity in nitrates, phosphates, etc. On a set schedule, one tank will be fed a specified amount of food (likely baby brine shrimp), the other tank will be left unfed.

I'd like to see what everyone else thinks of this idea and what I should watch for to maintain control over the experiment. If this does come together, any help putting together 2 identical systems would be great. I'll need ideas as to what the systems should contain, equipment, and probably some local help to monitor things should I not be able to make it one day.

If everyone thinks I'm insane, maybe I won't bother, but if I get a positive response, I feel like I should do this. Thanks in advance for your input everyone!

Aqua Pro Builder · 08-21-2006, 02:28 AM

I can contribute 2 20G long tanks but will need them back when your experiment is finished.

digitalreefer · 08-21-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingoAgency


	I can contribute 2 20G long tanks but will need them back when your experiment is finished.

Wingo that would be amazing! That was around the size I was thinking for the experiment. What do you think of the idea?

Aqua Pro Builder · 08-21-2006, 02:55 AM

I will PM you.

**Deanos** · 08-21-2006, 09:06 AM

Which known species are you studying? My personal experience tells me that Protopalythoa sp. will eat anything that will fit in its mouth, including cyclop-eeze, mysis, adult brine, etc while many zoanthus sp. won't react to other meaty foods offered.

Also, when you say 'various colonies', do you mean as determined by color morph? That would be a loss of experimental control. On the Marine Depot forum, coral expert Eric Borneman states, "As far as is known, there is no validity to color morph as a sole determinant of species designation."

Since you said last night that you've been doing alot of research into zoanthids, I'll limit my links on them to these three; you may have already read them.

Zoanthids - Eric Borneman

Zoanthids - Julian Sprung

Sea Mats - Blane Perun

LeslieS · 08-21-2006, 10:24 AM

To be sure they are the same species, you could frag the same colony/color/right next to eachother groups and put some in each tank.

**Deanos** · 08-21-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeslieS


	To be sure they are the same species, you could frag the same colony/color/right next to eachother groups and put some in each tank.

Very true! But as the articles above states, some species are known to eat, while others ignore offered foods. Those that ignore offered foods tend to absorb their required nutrients directly from the water column. As I said to digitalreefer on the Reef Graffiti last night, these particular zoanthids wouldn't be fed directly by his feedings, but indirectly via the water column once the uneaten food is broken down by other biological processes. If that is the case, all his experiment would prove is that feeding "a tank" would suffice in naturally propagating most zoanthids; something many people believe anyway. It would also prove that feeding zoas that do eat orally, is beneficial to their survival. Another no-brainer.

jiggy · 08-21-2006, 12:02 PM

u see that guys post on rc where he used a syringe to take color pigment out of one type of zoa and injected it into another

**nanoreefer22** · 08-21-2006, 12:20 PM

My only question/problem with the set up is how he is going to get 2 seperate tanks to have the exact same water quality/levels? With 2 seperate bodies of water wont that be near impossible?

fishguttz · 08-21-2006, 12:31 PM

I would think it impossible to have the same parameters especially if one tank has a higher bioload of daily feedings!

I also think you should only test one species of Zoa at a time if you want an even more accurate test. Otherwise; what would you conclude if some of the species of zoas in the feeder tank grew and some crashed?

08-21-2006, 02:19 AM	#1
digitalreefer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Park Slope Posts: 1,235 Reefer Ratings: (26) Friends: (0)	The Great Zoanthid Experiment There seems to be a great deal of information not known about zoanthids. Some say the number of species is 300 others say it's closer to 60. No one seems to be sure which species host palytoxin and which ones do not. Unfortunately, I can not study these things, but I can study the effects of food on zoanthids. I am considering starting an experiment to prove the effects of regular feedings on various zoanthid colonies. The experiment would consist of two tanks set up identically with numerous zoanthid colonies of equal polyp count in each tank. Nutrient levels would be monitored on a daily basis to avoid a disparity in nitrates, phosphates, etc. On a set schedule, one tank will be fed a specified amount of food (likely baby brine shrimp), the other tank will be left unfed. I'd like to see what everyone else thinks of this idea and what I should watch for to maintain control over the experiment. If this does come together, any help putting together 2 identical systems would be great. I'll need ideas as to what the systems should contain, equipment, and probably some local help to monitor things should I not be able to make it one day. If everyone thinks I'm insane, maybe I won't bother, but if I get a positive response, I feel like I should do this. Thanks in advance for your input everyone!

08-21-2006, 09:06 AM	#5
Deanos Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bronx, NY 10475 Posts: 12,032 Reefer Ratings: (96) Friends: (17)	Which known species are you studying? My personal experience tells me that Protopalythoa sp. will eat anything that will fit in its mouth, including cyclop-eeze, mysis, adult brine, etc while many zoanthus sp. won't react to other meaty foods offered. Also, when you say 'various colonies', do you mean as determined by color morph? That would be a loss of experimental control. On the Marine Depot forum, coral expert Eric Borneman states, "As far as is known, there is no validity to color morph as a sole determinant of species designation." Since you said last night that you've been doing alot of research into zoanthids, I'll limit my links on them to these three; you may have already read them. Zoanthids - Eric Borneman Zoanthids - Julian Sprung Sea Mats - Blane Perun __________________ Need help or have a question? Click the avatar below:

08-21-2006, 12:02 PM	#8
jiggy i put the YAY in YAYO Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ZOO JERSEY Posts: 180 Reefer Ratings: (0) Friends: (0)	u see that guys post on rc where he used a syringe to take color pigment out of one type of zoa and injected it into another __________________ Gracie Jiu Jitsu Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Royler Gracie Competition Team Coban Lookchaomaesaitong Muay Thai Camp Coban Fight Team http://www.myspace.com/j_i_g_g_y

08-21-2006, 12:20 PM	#9
nanoreefer22 YoYa Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Park Slope, Brooklyn Posts: 10,035 Reefer Ratings: (75) Friends: (20)	My only question/problem with the set up is how he is going to get 2 seperate tanks to have the exact same water quality/levels? With 2 seperate bodies of water wont that be near impossible? __________________ Kris MR Team

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08-21-2006, 02:28 AM	#2
Aqua Pro Builder Vendor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Flushing NY 11355 Posts: 4,742 Reefer Ratings: (75) Friends: (22)	I can contribute 2 20G long tanks but will need them back when your experiment is finished.

08-21-2006, 02:55 AM	#4
Aqua Pro Builder Vendor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Flushing NY 11355 Posts: 4,742 Reefer Ratings: (75) Friends: (22)	I will PM you.

08-21-2006, 10:24 AM	#6
LeslieS Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Manhattan Posts: 1,918 Reefer Ratings: (9) Friends: (11)	To be sure they are the same species, you could frag the same colony/color/right next to eachother groups and put some in each tank.

08-21-2006, 12:31 PM	#10
fishguttz Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 147 Reefer Ratings: (0) Friends: (0)	I would think it impossible to have the same parameters especially if one tank has a higher bioload of daily feedings! I also think you should only test one species of Zoa at a time if you want an even more accurate test. Otherwise; what would you conclude if some of the species of zoas in the feeder tank grew and some crashed?