Randy's Improved 2-part recipe - Page 2

kimoyo · 02-05-2006, 10:59 PM

Washing soda is the baked version of baking soda but it doesn't have to be food-grade which baking soda is.

Randy says, "All you are doing is changing the amount of carbon dioxide in the baking soda:", so it might still be sodium bicarbonate.

Noodleman you have access to laboratory grade sodium bicarbonate? Does laboratory grade mean its still food grade?

kimoyo · 02-05-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodleman


	wait nevermind found it, heating it up does transform it into carbonate instead of bicarbonate. So if I can locate and use sodium carbonate it should be fine without the heating

Okay, where?

spykes · 02-05-2006, 11:03 PM

LOL paul, i know it transforms it

noodleman · 02-05-2006, 11:05 PM

I'm thinking they use sodium bicarbonate instead of sodium carbonate is because of the extra sodium ion. Most likely it has something to do with the 1 to 1 equivalence to the chloride ion from the calcium chloride.

noodleman · 02-05-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimoyo


	Okay, where?

Found it herehttp://www.emfema.org/minerals/Sodium%20bicarbonate.htm under handling, when heated above 60 degree C if transforms. And labortory grade ingredients can be ordered anywhere and besides work in the lab at school

spykes · 02-05-2006, 11:12 PM

from NaHCO3 to Na2HCO3

kimoyo · 02-05-2006, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spykes


	LOL paul, i know it transforms it

I never liked chemistry anyway

.

noodleman · 02-05-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spykes


	from NaHCO3 to Na2HCO3

dont you mean NaHCO3 to NaCO3-?? a extra sodium ion doesn't just show up.

Cloud1921 · 02-05-2006, 11:19 PM

Hypothetically speaking, if sodium carbonate is the result of baking, I would assume that proton from sodium bicarb is lost due to the combustion like reaction from releasing CO2 and H2O.

Hence, Carbonate (Na2CO3) has a high alkalinity effect when dosed.
It can accept 2 protons relative to bicarbonate’s (NAHCO3) capability of accepting only 1.

Not really sure which is which, but a 1:1 ratio is most likely evident with sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) and calcium chloride (CaCl2), a 1:1 equivalent if considering the exchange of sodium and chloride ions.

However, with brands such as ESV's B-ionic, there is mixture of both alkalinity components of carb and bicarb.

noodleman · 02-05-2006, 11:24 PM

yo kris you got a superman rhodactis? But if the 1:1 equivalence is required, then why use the upgraded version with the MgCl? This would add extra Cl- to your sistem. Also the baking can't just add a Na+ ion onto the molecule becuase where is it beinging provided?

02-05-2006, 10:59 PM	#11
kimoyo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington Heights, NY Posts: 1,801 Reefer Ratings: (20) Friends: (4)	Washing soda is the baked version of baking soda but it doesn't have to be food-grade which baking soda is. Randy says, "All you are doing is changing the amount of carbon dioxide in the baking soda:", so it might still be sodium bicarbonate. Noodleman you have access to laboratory grade sodium bicarbonate? Does laboratory grade mean its still food grade? __________________ Paul

02-05-2006, 11:03 PM	#13
spykes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,821 Reefer Ratings: (19) Friends: (0)	LOL paul, i know it transforms it __________________ Understanding and reading is one of the best instrument we humans have, use it and become a higher being, ignorance is not bliss I grow my corals out of baking soda and icemelt =D

02-05-2006, 11:12 PM	#16
spykes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,821 Reefer Ratings: (19) Friends: (0)	from NaHCO3 to Na2HCO3 __________________ Understanding and reading is one of the best instrument we humans have, use it and become a higher being, ignorance is not bliss I grow my corals out of baking soda and icemelt =D

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02-05-2006, 11:05 PM	#14
noodleman The Lurker Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Williamsburg, Brooklyn Posts: 3,079 Reefer Ratings: (27) Friends: (6)	I'm thinking they use sodium bicarbonate instead of sodium carbonate is because of the extra sodium ion. Most likely it has something to do with the 1 to 1 equivalence to the chloride ion from the calcium chloride.

02-05-2006, 11:19 PM	#19
Cloud1921 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 318 Reefer Ratings: (31) Friends: (0)	Hypothetically speaking, if sodium carbonate is the result of baking, I would assume that proton from sodium bicarb is lost due to the combustion like reaction from releasing CO2 and H2O. Hence, Carbonate (Na2CO3) has a high alkalinity effect when dosed. It can accept 2 protons relative to bicarbonate’s (NAHCO3) capability of accepting only 1. Not really sure which is which, but a 1:1 ratio is most likely evident with sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) and calcium chloride (CaCl2), a 1:1 equivalent if considering the exchange of sodium and chloride ions. However, with brands such as ESV's B-ionic, there is mixture of both alkalinity components of carb and bicarb.

02-05-2006, 11:24 PM	#20
noodleman The Lurker Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Williamsburg, Brooklyn Posts: 3,079 Reefer Ratings: (27) Friends: (6)	yo kris you got a superman rhodactis? But if the 1:1 equivalence is required, then why use the upgraded version with the MgCl? This would add extra Cl- to your sistem. Also the baking can't just add a Na+ ion onto the molecule becuase where is it beinging provided?