[griMReefer]

there are bacteria in the air waiting to multiply once they have moisture and food. it doesn't matter much for the bacteria types of concern whether saltwater or freshwater. there are bacteria everywhere, seeding the water from the air, mainly.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

the whole purpose of live rock is to INCREASE the substrate upon which ammonia-busting bacteria colonize. considering the size of bacteria, rough surfaces of rock have an exponentially greater substrate to colonize than the relatively smooth surface of glass.

sure, bacteria will colonize most all surfaces in your tank, but the substrate upon which the bacteria have available to colonize (in addition to the available food) determines how much ammonia you can be filtering out of the closed environment and thus how many fish you can (or more appropriately, can't have) in that enclosed environment where ammonia has only one means of escape: bacterial consumption (other than negligible dissipation into the surrounding air).

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

im not sure about what wastes corals (or the symbionts they house) utilize.

[jackson6745]

Thanks for explaining Shaun,

[kimoyo]

Quote: Originally Posted by jackson6745 In the nitrate thread it was said that corals consume ammonium + nitrate. I am thinking that a high fishload corresponds to increased color because the lack of nitrifying bacteria compared to bioload is leaving trace amounts of ammonia in the water???

The sps coral uses ammonia and the zoox uses nitrates, but the coral absorbs both.

Quote: Originally Posted by jhale I just had a conversation with dave today about this. I think I'm too tired to explain it correctly, I'll let him do it later it was something like the fish poo feed the bacteria that break it down, and the coral will feed on that bacteria. there is a lot more too it, lol

I'm not sure if the coral would actually feed on the bacteria. There are bacteria that specifically break down organics into ammonia that the coral could use. So what dave was saying about the film makes sense to me. The corals use the ammonia + other stuff to create amino acids for itself. But the ammonia could probably also simply diffuse into the coral or take a cellular pathway.

	SPS Small Polyped Scleractinians - Sometimes known as Small Polyped Stony corals. These are hard corals that have extremely small polyps. They are typically on the difficult side and require Metal Halide lighting or dense Power Compact or T5 arrays. These corals are prized for their rareness and ability to be easily fragged into multiple colonies.

[jackson6745]

WTF is a cellular pathway?

[kimoyo]

Quote: Originally Posted by griMReefer do they remove organic solids, not ammonia and other dissolved fluids (fluids meaning other aqueous and gaseous compounds not suspensions)? i think not.

They can remove organic solids. Thats why the BB people like becketts so much, remove as much as you can before the bacteria break it down.

[ShaunW]

Quote: Originally Posted by jackson6745 WTF is a cellular pathway?

LOL!! Think of it as a highway leading from one place to another. In this case your doing a cascade of reactions leading from one simple molecule (such as CO2) to a more complex molecule used for energy or energy storage, i.e. biogenesis or biosynthesis.

The opposite can also be true of a cellular pathway (degradation), going from a complex molecule used as food, i.e. carbohydrates (pasta is good!!) to raw biological energy (ATP).

[jackson6745]

Ok I understand, thanks

[kimoyo]

What solbby just described I think is a metabolic pathway.

But there were some other classifications I read in those papers; transcellular pathway (like a diffusion thru the cell) and paracellular pathway (inbetween the cell). But I'm really bs'ing now because I don't really know, lol. I'm sure Solbby should explain it..haha.

[kimoyo]

Solbby, we should finish that nitrate discussion because I'm still confused about somethings. Not now, lol, but soon.

[ShaunW]

Quote: Originally Posted by kimoyo Solbby, we should finish that nitrate discussion because I'm still confused about somethings. Not now, lol, but soon.

Sounds good. I've been thinking about other things over the last 24 hours, . For example my real scientific research, .

Oh, btw all the different pathways that you mentioned above can be interlinked (mix and matched) in that a transcellular pathway can be metabolic in nature, i.e. for example requiring the breakdown of ATP for active transport (carrier proteins). Mitochondria are a good example of paracellular pathways being metabolic also.