[LeslieS]

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist Foreword, Introduction, and Chapter One Introduction
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[Harif87]

Quote: Originally Posted by jhale would this not go against being a conscientious aquarist? I feel the opposite, we can and should tell new hobbyists not to keep difficult specimens. It's because of the people who have pioneered the hobby that we have the knowledge we do today. this knowledge should be used, shared, and taught to all those who enter the hobby. The knowledge helps prevent mistakes others have made, and should be used to give the absolute best care we can to the animals we choose to keep. My definition of a conscientious aquarist is a person who understands what being in the hobby means to the reefs that we collect our creatures from. a quote from Fenner - "The word conscientious is derived from the latin roots for with (con) and to know (scire). Being conscientious as a marine aquarist means being an informed, intelligent consumer. More than that, it also implies a level of faith in the hobby and a deep affection for the environments we seek to mimic in miniature. It means taking certain responsibilities seriously and doing things right. both for our own peace of mind and the well-being of our captive charges." I would prefer if he had placed taking care of the animals before being an informed consumer, but at least they are both mentioned. I've been in the marine hobby since '85. I was lucky, I started out buying from some great stores owned by people who cared about the animals they sold. I never got bad advice from them, and they helped guide me along the way. We are now lucky enough to have the internet, and the message boards such as Manhattan Reefs. They are such a great way to spread this wealth of knowledge let's just make sure we do so in a responsible way

Exactly, the conscientous aquarist is the aquarist with knowledge. Whether or not we tell whoever what or what not to do has no effect on us being a conscientious aquarist. I think also that you may have slightly misunderstood what i meant to say. I meant to say that we cant tell them that they cannot under any circumstances have whatever it is that they want, but we can urge them not to. That is to say we cant force them not to keep what it is they want to keep but we can only suggest.

We have the obligation to urge newbs not to bite off more than they can chew so they will become conscientous in that aspect.

One of my favorite lines in the chapters "Humans only love what they know; and people do not destroy what they love."
I think im gonna add that one to my sig..

[jhale]

ah, ok now I get what you were saying.
you can always tell people what the best thing to do is, whether they choose to follow the advice is a whole other story, as you said.

[Harif87]

Quote: Originally Posted by jhale ah, ok now I get what you were saying. you can always tell people what the best thing to do is, whether they choose to follow the advice is a whole other story, as you said.

Exactly

[digitalreefer]

Ultimately, the responsibility is on each individual. Ask questions! Although most stores will sell you anything, a reputable store won't lie if you ask them questions. Here's an example:

I recently went in to a shop that had a ton of decorative algae in stock. Had I asked to buy it, they would have gladly wrapped it up for me. I asked one of the employees which the best would be for my fuge and described my setup briefly. He told me that none of the algae they had was known to do very well in most systems and I was better off not bothering. I thanked him, avoided the algae and bought something else.

[Harif87]

Yeah i would stay away from the advice of most LFS employees no matter how knowledgabe they are. They tend to bend the truth. IMHO its better to double check online (although not fullproof) before spending.

[digitalreefer]

I tend to trust them when they dissuade me from buying. This is the same employee who when I first started told me he wouldn't sell me any fish because he felt my tank wasn't ready, but he could point out a good book if I felt the need to buy something.

[jhale]

and don't forget RIF investing in a set of good reef books can save you money in the long run.

another topic mentioned in the intro is that we as hobbyists can help bring sustainable economies to areas of the world that have no way to make money at all. this past weekend I went to NERAC 3 and heard Dustin from ORA give a talk. One of the things he spoke about was the clam farm they had bought in the Marshal Islands and were training the people in the area how to raise clams and coral. these are families living with no power or running water on little specs of land in the middle of nowhere. raising the baby clams and gluing coral frags is giving them an actual income. Dustin mentioned that the people gluing the coral frags had no idea why people would want to buy them. When you think about it that is pretty funny. So the next time you get a clam or a frag from ORA think about the man sitting in the middle of the ocean who thinks you are quite strange for wanting to spend good money for a colored stick glued to a rock

But really by being a educated consumer, in this case, we really can make a difference in both the environment, and a local poor economy.

[ellebelle]

Quote: Originally Posted by Domboski I am not against the list just wondering what the criteria is. According to Fenner's definition of "difficult to keep", I feel the Blue Ribbon Eel fits the bill and the Coral Catshark does not. The IUCN Redlist seems to have a different criteria for including a species on the list. Is it simply related to how they are collected?

There are a lot of problems with the list - I've heard lots of primate conservationists argue about it. It's not great, but it's the best we have.

Basically, they look at species and determine how endangered they are in the wild from ALL things - hunting, fishing, pet trade, deforestation, destruction of corals reefs, etc., etc. I've found that the list is less complete for marine life because there is SO MUCH of it. It's possible that the blue ribbon eel wasn't studied.

Also, the point isn't whether they can be bred in captivity - the question is how detrimental is it going to be to the ecosystem to take these animals away, based on the numbers that are left in the wild. But, if you can buy tank bred, then it's moot from an ecological sense because you aren't buying a wild caught animal.

[ellebelle]

Quote: Originally Posted by jhale But really by being a educated consumer, in this case, we really can make a difference in both the environment, and a local poor economy.

Maybe .... provided the people are trained like at the ORA farms. But this goes back to trying to figure out what the collections practices are in the area where you buy your fish.


As a side note, I liked how Fenner talked about how if we just leave our tanks alone, save for routine maitenance, we can have beautiful aquaria. Is that his way of telling us all to keep our hands out of the tank?

[Harif87]

In response to jhale; i think that our dollar can reach as far as the guy glueing frags on rocks. But one must understand that the term "our" means ever single person who bought, buys, and will buy livestock. Sure us MR book club members may spend our dollar somewhere else or on something else, but what about the thousands of people out there who just want a "nemo" and an anemone? This attiutude might sound like it promotes "social loafing" but isnt that the reality of things? I most definately look for the aqua cultured livestock and things of the sort, but chain stores like petland and petco get volumes of people who couldnt care less about where the fish came from.

However id like to say that keeping the people who glue frags for a living definately helps put things into perspective, as far as the reality of it all is concerned. And i think other people should keep in mind where the livestock are comming from and to understand the reality of the hobby.