[newly salted]

You should know what you can keep before buying. If your not sure ask the seller, if your still not sure post a question thats what the site is for or ask a friend in the club

[nikkibabee]

I think the buyer should research the needs and requirements before claiming dibs on a thread, but I also feel that as a seller you should stand behind your frags...working together to come up with a compromise in the end and keeping a good reefing environment is most important.

[Davidl919]

What if your buying from a seller who knows that they can no longer dedicate the time and have probably not have taken care of things or that the seller knows this isn't as nice as when I first got it and it hasn't grown. There are sellers like this.
I brougth of frag from a really nice store that I knew was receding but it caught my eye and I brought and i've been able to keep it going for over 6 months now. It did receed once but it was my fault. I was not dedicating as much time to my tank due to my puppy.
The buyer should also be responsible. But it is a very touchy subject.
If selling at the swap and someone complains of a sale, I would contact the other buyers see if they had problems and judge it on that. In my shoes I would not do a full refund if the other buyers did not have problems.

Can't vote. It all depends. Sorry Ming. Please don't hate me I love your frags.

[inkblue]

i tHinK by neXt weeK... aLL the sPs i bUy tomorrow be bRown seLL at yoUR own riSK

	SPS Small Polyped Scleractinians - Sometimes known as Small Polyped Stony corals. These are hard corals that have extremely small polyps. They are typically on the difficult side and require Metal Halide lighting or dense Power Compact or T5 arrays. These corals are prized for their rareness and ability to be easily fragged into multiple colonies.

[SWA]

Well....I have been on both sides...

As a buyer, I think it is important to understand the species and its needs. I have purchased SPS and taken a risk at some species and they did not do well...it happens. Some species the percentages are against you regardless. That being said, I don't blame the seller. My expectations of a seller are: is the item what you wanted, does it match description, inc size. The huge issue with the corals I deal with is color.

So here's my rant on color. Any coral can look awesome with proper care, lighting and feeding. Any coral can look really awesome with good photography. But, as we all know many choose to PS the images. I know it is frustrating trying to get the photographs to come close to what you see in your tank, and many times they fall short. Unfortunately some vendors do alter images.

With the ricordea (since that is my specialty), I get the best coloration with high light with actinic supplementation. Bi-weekly hand feedings and some detectable nitrates! YIKES!! Yeah I know you SPS nuts are about peeing your pants eh...sure you don't want to come back to the realm of softies LOL
That being said, they color great even in very pristine water. I just find they grow better with some nitrates in the water. They do well with water in the mid to upper 70's.

So, now that I have said that. What do I expect from a buyer-
Bring polyps home and acclimate them to temp and drip to get ready for intro to your system.
Place in a medium to low flow area. Well lit, not in the shade.
Try not to place the rics next to some nasty neighbor...not that they can't hold their own, but still.
Once the specimen is in the tank it will show extension within 12 hrs. If it does not I would like an email, or call.
Most will open and be happy within 3 hrs.
I am willing to hear any problems and try and come up with a solution for a buyer.
I don't offer a 14 day policy...sorry I am not F&S, but I will try very hard to rectify the situation.

I hope that about sums it up.
Beth

	SPS Small Polyped Scleractinians - Sometimes known as Small Polyped Stony corals. These are hard corals that have extremely small polyps. They are typically on the difficult side and require Metal Halide lighting or dense Power Compact or T5 arrays. These corals are prized for their rareness and ability to be easily fragged into multiple colonies.

[DontXtripNfall]

Quote: Originally Posted by SWA Well....I have been on both sides... As a buyer, I think it is important to understand the species and its needs. I have purchased SPS and taken a risk at some species and they did not do well...it happens. Some species the percentages are against you regardless. That being said, I don't blame the seller. My expectations of a seller are: is the item what you wanted, does it match description, inc size. The huge issue with the corals I deal with is color. So here's my rant on color. Any coral can look awesome with proper care, lighting and feeding. Any coral can look really awesome with good photography. But, as we all know many choose to PS the images. I know it is frustrating trying to get the photographs to come close to what you see in your tank, and many times they fall short. Unfortunately some vendors do alter images. With the ricordea (since that is my specialty), I get the best coloration with high light with actinic supplementation. Bi-weekly hand feedings and some detectable nitrates! YIKES!! Yeah I know you SPS nuts are about peeing your pants eh...sure you don't want to come back to the realm of softies LOL That being said, they color great even in very pristine water. I just find they grow better with some nitrates in the water. They do well with water in the mid to upper 70's. So, now that I have said that. What do I expect from a buyer- Bring polyps home and acclimate them to temp and drip to get ready for intro to your system. Place in a medium to low flow area. Well lit, not in the shade. Try not to place the rics next to some nasty neighbor...not that they can't hold their own, but still. Once the specimen is in the tank it will show extension within 12 hrs. If it does not I would like an email, or call. Most will open and be happy within 3 hrs. I am willing to hear any problems and try and come up with a solution for a buyer. I don't offer a 14 day policy...sorry I am not F&S, but I will try very hard to rectify the situation. I hope that about sums it up. Beth

I agree with Beth.

	SPS Small Polyped Scleractinians - Sometimes known as Small Polyped Stony corals. These are hard corals that have extremely small polyps. They are typically on the difficult side and require Metal Halide lighting or dense Power Compact or T5 arrays. These corals are prized for their rareness and ability to be easily fragged into multiple colonies.

[reefprobe]

Guys its pretty plain and simple you go to a store and the coral or fish looks great and you grab the sales person and ask them a few questions and regardless if their answers are right or wrong you buy it. You take the item home and you then you realize that this may have been a mistake or this item was a misfit? Well the burden is yours not the stores!! You should have done your homework!!

Remember the store has a million things going on and does not get paid a consultation fee to spend unlimited time with you and listen to your life history about your tank! They have a store to run and they are also trying to pay the bills and keep all the other customers who know what they want .

[House of Laughter]

Stores AND vendors here on MR still have responsibility to educate their clientèle on whats going on with the animals and whether or not they can care for them. Even with seasoned buyers/reefers, we take the time to help them understand the needs.

As for acclimation procedures etc, this is a baseline knowledge necessary for this hobby - do tire stores teach you to drive? you get my point. All that aside, I look for clues and position questions to help me gain knowledge of the reefer who is making the purchase and their knowledge base. This often drives my replies and questions to determine if they need additional assistance (acclimation procedures etc)

I think, especially here on MR, we have a responsibility to educate the buyer and that buyers need to be realistic about what they can put in their tanks. Unfortunately, everyone believes their cycle is further along that it actually is.

I never vote on binary questions - especially when this is a shared responsibility.

House

	Manhattan Reefs Manhattan Reefs, the best aquarium community on Planet Earth!

[reefprobe]

Quote: Originally Posted by House of Laughter Stores AND vendors here on MR still have responsibility to educate their clientèle on whats going on with the animals and whether or not they can care for them. Even with seasoned buyers/reefers, we take the time to help them understand the needs. As for acclimation procedures etc, this is a baseline knowledge necessary for this hobby - do tire stores teach you to drive? you get my point. All that aside, I look for clues and position questions to help me gain knowledge of the reefer who is making the purchase and their knowledge base. This often drives my replies and questions to determine if they need additional assistance (acclimation procedures etc) I think, especially here on MR, we have a responsibility to educate the buyer and that buyers need to be realistic about what they can put in their tanks. Unfortunately, everyone believes their cycle is further along that it actually is. I never vote on binary questions - especially when this is a shared responsibility. House

Agreed

Now I have been in stores before when "Joe gung ho reefer" lets call him, has taken up all the salespersons time with every question in the book. UGH!! And we all sit there patiently waiting for "joe" to finish his intense line of questioning that lasts for ever...............only to see that this person purchased NOTHING!!!!! And you can see in the sales person face the frustration! And the store is busy and there is a line of customers behind me waiting and we all know what we want, we may have few questions , but we know what we want and we buy it and we leave.

So House if you have a line of people waiting do you give them a 25 question test on each and every item to make sure its just the right fit?
Of course not, its up to the customer to take most of the responsibility to do their own research and know what they are buying! Otherwise its a impulse buy and maybe they did not ask the right questions? But to blame it on the vendor? No way........................

	Manhattan Reefs Manhattan Reefs, the best aquarium community on Planet Earth!

[Domboski]

The majority of the responsibility is on the buyer. Can you really believe all of the answers to your questions when someone is trying to sell you something? With clubs like Manhattan Reefs, the Internet and books, there is no excuse for making an impulse buy that implies anything but your own fault.

The main thing a "seller" is responsible for is being 100% honest when answering questions and using their best judgement to decide when it is appropriate to proactively ask for system information. I think that is not too much to ask someone selling live animals. Honesty also includes "sellers" admitting they may not know something about a particular animal should that be the case.