Upgrade Question?

OctaviousMonk · 12-15-2007, 06:25 PM

I know there are many variables in this situation and the question may be really stupid, but....

Do you think the floor in an older third floor apartment (around 1930's I think) that is currently holding up a 72 bow front w/ a 10 gallon refugium, sump, 5 gallon top off tank and assorted other goodies could hold up a 120 gallon tank?

Other factors to consider: The lights mounted in the ceiling, I won't be adding any more rocks, I will be adding 2 more inches of sand a larger refugium and a larger sump. The tank would be going in the same spot against an outside wall. Here are pics of the 72 as it stands.

I am planing on buying a condo within a year to a year and a half and was going to upgrade then, but hey I can always dream.
Any constructive input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy

Davidl919 · 12-15-2007, 06:43 PM

I went against the laws of practicality and upgraded to a 140 in a pre WWII building. On top of the added tank weight I doubled my rock to about 130lbs and added sand up to 60 lbs. In the same space I added a storage rack and an additional Water storage of 20 gallons and upgraded the stand to a heavier 2X4 wood and higher 36. In total I believe that When I went from a 90 to a 140 I double the total weight on the floor beams. What you need to look for is trying to figure how many beams Your tank will be sitting on. You need at least 2 for any tank.

Killerdrgn · 12-15-2007, 07:36 PM

It really depends on the constuction of the house. I've seen a lot of older houses that use very heavy beams that can support a butt load of weight. But then you also might have to factor in if the house ever had termites, water damage, or any other occurance that can comprimise the integrity of the house.
If you really want to be safe you can build a very wide fish tank stand - stand so the stand for the fish tank will be 2 inches off the ground and have maybe 2 feet space around the tank. This would maximize the area that the weight is on. What a friend did back in boston was to make the secondary stand a flood catcher, so if the tank flooded it would funnel the water to the corners which had drain holes that lead to a bathroom drain. Though you could also get a sump pump from home depot that has a float switch and have it drain out a window or sink.

nsiegel5 · 12-15-2007, 07:47 PM

I build condos and high rise buildings in manhattan for a living and have renovated many buildings around that time period. Most of the wood used was 3x10 or 4 x 10 rough timber and in fact is much stronger then what we build with today. Remember this stuff is old and worn after many years. The best thing you can do is spread the load of the fish tank perpendicularly to the direction the beams run. Also try to place the tank closest to a wall where the beams are supported most by a load bearing wall. Make sure that the stand you are using does not place the points of pressure from the tank in the corners but rather spreads the load of the tank across the entire bottom of the stand. Just remember wider is better its like the difference of a woman stepping on your toes with high heels on or with flats, she still weighs the same but the high heels hurt like hell because of the small point and all the weight being directed to that one spot OUCH!!!

OctaviousMonk · 12-15-2007, 08:02 PM

hmm I like the idea of the extra stand under the stand, but because it is a major focal point in my living room it won't work look wise. I guess I will have to get a really good stud finder and check my ceiling to find where the studs are so I get a better idea. I am pretty sure however that the walls and ceilings are made of old plaster and I am not sure the stud finder will work.
Anyone have a better way of checking where the floor beams/stud are?
Does anyone with construction experience who lives in the area care to come by and give me their professional opinion? Maybe I should call a company who sets tanks up to come by and tell me what they think.

Killerdrgn · 12-15-2007, 08:05 PM

knock on the plaster/drywall/wood whatever it is. If theres nothing behind it the sound should be hollow, if there is a large beam there it should have a definite hard sound.

OctaviousMonk · 12-15-2007, 08:06 PM

nsiegel, it would be put against an outside facing wall and the area isn't in a high traffic area so I don't think there is too much wear on the beams. I am als trying to figure out where saids beams are, any ideas of how to tell?

Killerdrgn · 12-15-2007, 08:10 PM

Oh yeah the knocking thing won't work on carpeting. works very well for hardwood floors.

masterswimmer · 12-15-2007, 10:07 PM

I'm guessing your building has a basement. If you can go down there, I would assume the ceiling beams run the same direction as the floor beams your tank would sit on. Hopefully the basement ceiling beams are not covered with sheetrock. There should be some place down there to do some investigative work.

As already stated, run the tank perpendicular to the joists on an outside wall (bearing wall) and span as many joists as possible. Also the suggestion of not using four single points of stand contact and spreading the weight across the span would be advisable.

Read here for the best info you can get. Most informative site I've read on the subject.

Russ

12-15-2007, 06:25 PM	#1
OctaviousMonk Sucka Free Reefin' !!! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Westwood, NJ Posts: 743 Reefer Ratings: (31) Friends: (1)	Upgrade Question? I know there are many variables in this situation and the question may be really stupid, but.... Do you think the floor in an older third floor apartment (around 1930's I think) that is currently holding up a 72 bow front w/ a 10 gallon refugium, sump, 5 gallon top off tank and assorted other goodies could hold up a 120 gallon tank? Other factors to consider: The lights mounted in the ceiling, I won't be adding any more rocks, I will be adding 2 more inches of sand a larger refugium and a larger sump. The tank would be going in the same spot against an outside wall. Here are pics of the 72 as it stands. I am planing on buying a condo within a year to a year and a half and was going to upgrade then, but hey I can always dream. Any constructive input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Randy Attached Thumbnails Last edited by OctaviousMonk; 12-15-2007 at 06:30 PM.

12-15-2007, 06:43 PM	#2
Davidl919 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Inwood, Manhattan, NYC Posts: 642 Reefer Ratings: (13) Friends: (3)	I went against the laws of practicality and upgraded to a 140 in a pre WWII building. On top of the added tank weight I doubled my rock to about 130lbs and added sand up to 60 lbs. In the same space I added a storage rack and an additional Water storage of 20 gallons and upgraded the stand to a heavier 2X4 wood and higher 36. In total I believe that When I went from a 90 to a 140 I double the total weight on the floor beams. What you need to look for is trying to figure how many beams Your tank will be sitting on. You need at least 2 for any tank. __________________ Current Tank 12 gallon Nano My 140 is on Pause Will be back Soon.

12-15-2007, 10:07 PM	#9
masterswimmer www.saltwatercritters.com Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orange County Posts: 9,234 Reefer Ratings: (88) Friends: (16)	I'm guessing your building has a basement. If you can go down there, I would assume the ceiling beams run the same direction as the floor beams your tank would sit on. Hopefully the basement ceiling beams are not covered with sheetrock. There should be some place down there to do some investigative work. As already stated, run the tank perpendicular to the joists on an outside wall (bearing wall) and span as many joists as possible. Also the suggestion of not using four single points of stand contact and spreading the weight across the span would be advisable. Read here for the best info you can get. Most informative site I've read on the subject. Russ __________________ House of Fish (845) 610-3114 www.saltwatercritters.com Serving all your saltwater critter and reef needs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-15-2007, 07:36 PM	#3
Killerdrgn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Forest Hills Posts: 1,453 Reefer Ratings: (11) Friends: (5)	It really depends on the constuction of the house. I've seen a lot of older houses that use very heavy beams that can support a butt load of weight. But then you also might have to factor in if the house ever had termites, water damage, or any other occurance that can comprimise the integrity of the house. If you really want to be safe you can build a very wide fish tank stand - stand so the stand for the fish tank will be 2 inches off the ground and have maybe 2 feet space around the tank. This would maximize the area that the weight is on. What a friend did back in boston was to make the secondary stand a flood catcher, so if the tank flooded it would funnel the water to the corners which had drain holes that lead to a bathroom drain. Though you could also get a sump pump from home depot that has a float switch and have it drain out a window or sink.

12-15-2007, 07:47 PM	#4
nsiegel5 Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Great Neck Posts: 127 Reefer Ratings: (3) Friends: (0)	I build condos and high rise buildings in manhattan for a living and have renovated many buildings around that time period. Most of the wood used was 3x10 or 4 x 10 rough timber and in fact is much stronger then what we build with today. Remember this stuff is old and worn after many years. The best thing you can do is spread the load of the fish tank perpendicularly to the direction the beams run. Also try to place the tank closest to a wall where the beams are supported most by a load bearing wall. Make sure that the stand you are using does not place the points of pressure from the tank in the corners but rather spreads the load of the tank across the entire bottom of the stand. Just remember wider is better its like the difference of a woman stepping on your toes with high heels on or with flats, she still weighs the same but the high heels hurt like hell because of the small point and all the weight being directed to that one spot OUCH!!!

12-15-2007, 08:02 PM	#5
OctaviousMonk Sucka Free Reefin' !!! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Westwood, NJ Posts: 743 Reefer Ratings: (31) Friends: (1)	hmm I like the idea of the extra stand under the stand, but because it is a major focal point in my living room it won't work look wise. I guess I will have to get a really good stud finder and check my ceiling to find where the studs are so I get a better idea. I am pretty sure however that the walls and ceilings are made of old plaster and I am not sure the stud finder will work. Anyone have a better way of checking where the floor beams/stud are? Does anyone with construction experience who lives in the area care to come by and give me their professional opinion? Maybe I should call a company who sets tanks up to come by and tell me what they think.

12-15-2007, 08:05 PM	#6
Killerdrgn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Forest Hills Posts: 1,453 Reefer Ratings: (11) Friends: (5)	knock on the plaster/drywall/wood whatever it is. If theres nothing behind it the sound should be hollow, if there is a large beam there it should have a definite hard sound.

12-15-2007, 08:06 PM	#7
OctaviousMonk Sucka Free Reefin' !!! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Westwood, NJ Posts: 743 Reefer Ratings: (31) Friends: (1)	nsiegel, it would be put against an outside facing wall and the area isn't in a high traffic area so I don't think there is too much wear on the beams. I am als trying to figure out where saids beams are, any ideas of how to tell?

12-15-2007, 08:10 PM	#8
Killerdrgn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Forest Hills Posts: 1,453 Reefer Ratings: (11) Friends: (5)	Oh yeah the knocking thing won't work on carpeting. works very well for hardwood floors.