The Concientious Marine Aquarist: Part 1, Chapter 1

[Quang]

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: Part 1, Chapter 1

Summary:
I loved how Fenner begins this chapter by introducing "nutrient cycling." Commonly known as just "cycling" to us in the reef community. It's quite appropriately for Fenner to do since it's such a necessary concept in proper husbandry. It's the first step we take in properly setting up a marine tank.

Fenner continues by describing some key components in a marine system:
1) The aquarium itself. Made of inert material.
2) Seawater, synthetic or natural
3) Temperature control
4) Lighting
5) Filtration
6) Substrate and rock work
7) Test kits/monitors
9) Additives

He explains the role of each component and its importance.

As Fenner states, "Before advancing in the details of equipment, filtration, water quality...much confusion can be avoided if we think in terms of three classic types of systems: Fish only, fish and hardy invertebrates, and reef systems."

Without going into detail, I'll basically summarize Fenner's opinions on the three types of systems. In order, each system represents the level of experience/expertise in the marine aquarium hobby. In other words, beginners should start off with Fish-Only, move on to Fish-And Hardy-Invertebrate, and then graduate to the Reef Systems.

He has a special section called "Small Marine Systems: Caution Advised," focusing on nano-tanks.

Some memorable quotes:
"Marine aquarium keeping is still part science, part craft and art, and part voodoo;" pg. 34 :chef:

"A properly set up and stocked reef system can actually become the closest thing marine systems have to being almost maintenance-free" pg.41
(I read this as: KEEP YOU HANDS OUT OF THE TANK :smokin

and my favorite:
"Most beginners assume that choosing the right equipment is the difficult part; in fact, more mistakes are made in selecting the fist fishes than in picking appropriate hardware." pg. 42 :help:

Personal Comments:
I really enjoy Fenner's first chapter, which gives us a preview of what it's like to keep a marine aquarium. It's very basic information that I've already read about/understand somewhat, but it's also refreshing to see it so eloquently organized and presented. I particularly took interest on what Fenner had to say about smaller tanks (hmm, I wonder why :lol::p). And I agree with him whole-heartedly. Although my experience in keeping smaller tanks have been fortunate, I don't recommend it to anyone but the most dedicated of hobbyist. The only other thing I would like to emphasize is that dedication goes hand in hand with experience. Although I lacked the experience that Fenner suggests for anyone keeping a small tank, I tried to make it up in dedication for and rigorous attentiveness to my tank.

The only issue I would disagree with Fenner on is:
"Let me state a simple truth: Marines are no harder or expensive to keep than discus or other plants and fishes widely maintained in advanced freshwater systems."
In my experience with both FW and SW systems, this is not true. I've easily dealt out more cash for SW systems. Couple that with us reefers continually getting the upgrade bug and thats no equal comparison.

Although I agree with Fenner on the ladder approach to becoming a reef keeper, I can't help but feel I haven't done that...or most MR members for that matter. I jumped into reefing when I started SW tanks. What are your thoughts on that? How can we advocate this idea w/o being hypocritical ourselves? Is such a scenario avoidable?
I found myself feeling quite contradicting in what I believe now and what I've done in the past.
My only regret is not reading this book earlier in my reefing "career." :shocked1:

Please feel free to comment on any of the above and bring up other issues. :goldfish2

 

[Kedd]

I just ordered my copy, maybe I'll jump in next chapter.


Good start!

 

[LeslieS]

Fish only

I found it interesting that on page 31 Fenner included live rock in a list of items that could be added to a Fish only tank but "they can also have downsides. The likelihood of overstocking metabolite pollution, and a disastrous wipeout is increasingly greater with the addition of more species and more total bioload to a system."

I know live rock contributes to the bioload, but I thought most fish only systems started with live rock as part of the cycle. Maybe it was included to remind readers that additional live rock will add to the bioload.

fish and hardy invertebrates

Fenner listed "peaceful" starfishes as somthing to add to a fish and invert system. I would have preferred him to say "reef safe". It seems like a petty thing, but if this was truly a step that someone was taking to build toward a full blown reef, they could find that one of their critters had to go.

"Let me state a simple truth: Marines are no harder or expensive to keep than discus or other plants and fishes widely maintained in advanced freshwater systems."

On page 42 Fenner addresses reef systems specifically. "Most ropical reef setups represent thousands of dollars of investment, with their keepers often spending hundreds more a month on equipment, organisms, food, and electricity."

Are marine fish only systems still more expensive in MR readers opinion's than fresh water systems?

I found myself feeling quite contradicting in what I believe now and what I've done in the past.

LOL - me too. As I read, I keep thinking, "oops!" I have no excuse. I actually had the book while I was setting up my tank. I do have to say, that I would never have been interested in setting up a fish only tank as an end goal so I may not have gotten into the hobby if I had to follow the ladder process.

"A properly set up and stocked reef system can actually become the closest thing marine systems have to being almost maintenance-free" pg.41
(I read this as: KEEP YOU HANDS OUT OF THE TANK :smokin

I also had this highlighted. :smile: He goes on to say that components need to be balanced and fish populations should be limited.

I think the discipline to not buy one more fish is one of the hardest things for people in this hobby. When I had only 3 small (like 1-4 inch) fish in my 120, a more experienced reefer told me to stop there. I love all my fish, but I should have listened. Fish add a lot to the bioload, and they are actually kind of a distraction from the corals and more subtle things that are going on in the tank.

One final thought, is there something that anyone feels is a critical part of a marine, fish or reef, system that Fenner did not include?

 

[Harif87]

On page 42 Fenner addresses reef systems specifically. "Most ropical reef setups represent thousands of dollars of investment, with their keepers often spending hundreds more a month on equipment, organisms, food, and electricity."

Are marine fish only systems still more expensive in MR readers opinion's than fresh water systems?

I think that its possible to have a SW setup of same calibur of a FW setup but odds are that itll be a real crummy setup.

 

[PalmTree]

I liked the story he told of someone who walked into his shop and droped a ton of money to replicate a full reef on display. Soon after the impulsive buyer realized it was more involved than just feeding flake food he had to dismantle the tank and turned it into a freswater setup. Patience is key!!!

 

[drperetz]

I liked the story he told of someone who walked into his shop and droped a ton of money to replicate a full reef on display. Soon after the impulsive buyer realized it was more involved than just feeding flake food he had to dismantle the tank and turned it into a freswater setup. Patience is key!!!

NOT only that, but monitoring ur tank everyday so crucial to the well maintained tank... Viewing and testing is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
important......:type:

 

[ellebelle]

Things I thought were interesting + comments:

*Fenner recommends longer, lower tanks for oxygen diffusion purposes and because they have, "...homogeneous thermal control...", among other things.

I agree that it's much harder to get good O2 diffusion with a tall tank than a long tank. But I've recently been thinking that having no thermocline is not necessarily beneficial. I've noticed that when my tank runs a little warm, some of my corals look awesome, whereas others start to look a little droopy - gorgonians in particular. Conversely, when my tank runs a little cooler, my gorgonians are happy but my zoanthids don't all quite open. The reality is that without doing a biotope tank, our organisms might like different temperatures. In that way, having a tall tank would be beneficial because the temperature would be less homogeneous. Just a thought.

*Fenner does tend to make the assumption that people move from freshwater to salt water. I know that is true for a lot of people, but I have never kept a FW tank, unless you count the feeder goldfish I won at the fair when I was nine.

*It's interesting that Fenner says that a substrate is necessary - this book was clearly written before the BB tank craze. He also mentions using crushed coral, which everyone on this site will say is a no-no because they are nitrate factories. I think that's probably true, and when I move out of my apartment I will be changing my crushed coral substrate. On the other hand, my pods love it.

* I think it's interesting that he puts "Fish and Inverts" as the step between fish only and a full reef system. There are inverts out there that are more difficult to keep than the easier corals like polyps and softies. In the photos, he has an orange sponge which I have been under the impression is quite difficult to keep because of the necessity of excellent water quality combined with plenty of nutrients in the water for filter feeding. Seems to me that a nice toadstool coral would be preferable to a sponge for an "intermediate aquarist".

*How did you all go about deciding how you were going to stock your tank? Did you do it on the fly, or did you plan?

I did my reef planning Fenner style, with several books and a piece of paper and a pen. I decided which fish were most important to me, then drafted a list that I thought fell within my bioload. My original list was: a wrasse, a royal gramma, a flame angel, a tomato clown, a firefish, neon goby and a starry blenny. I've adjusted that list somewhat - I got the wrasse, the gramma and a purple firefish. I've nixed the flame angel because I decided I didn't want to take the chance on polyp eating. I'm still planning on clowns, but I decided on a less aggressive species. I picked up a chromis early on in an unplanned manner, but that's okay. Everything I put in my tank is thoroughly researched - fish, inverts and corals.

*for the nano tank people - do you usually use a sump with the nano tank? I would expect that the extra water volume would help with your parameters. If not, how do you keep from having big shifts in your levels?

 

[Harif87]

*for the nano tank people - do you usually use a sump with the nano tank? I would expect that the extra water volume would help with your parameters. If not, how do you keep from having big shifts in your levels?

Im planning to start a nano without a sump. Key pieces of equipment are going to be the fans cooling the water and an ATO system. Without those two, IMHO, the tank doesnt stand a shot.

In response to Fenner mentioning people going from FW to SW; i think thats the best way to go. Ive done FW for a while before i did SW. If i hadnt done FW before i would have done a really bad job on my SW tank because FW teaches the basics. Im not saying its impossible to start with SW but IMHO the best way to go for it is by having some FW experience first.

Also, just to share my .02, when i stocked my tank i didnt really plan for it, i just added fish that could have done well with how the tank was already. Now i regret it. I want to sell some livestock because as time goes on i learn about new fish. So to that i say that making a list before you buy your livestock is a great idea.

 

[ellebelle]

I don't think it's necessary to start with FW tanks provided that the aquarist in question is willing to do the research. I would consider my tank to be a success (thus far!!), but the only reason it is so is because I had the help and advice of the people on this board and was willing to read and learn.

I know absolutely nothing about FW tanks, but from what I do know, SW is extremely different. Filtration, lighting, the presence of LR are all things that are substratially different between FW and SW (from what I've heard/read on this forum). So, in your experience, how does a FW tank prepare a person for reefkeeping? What skills do you feel you've learned keeping freshwater fish that you employ in keeping saltwater? (Not an accusation - I'm genuinely curious)

 

[Harif87]

A respectable question.

FW taught me the basics such as: the nitrogen cycle, taking care of algae blooms, preventing detritus build ups, being dedicated (obviously not to the extent that reef keeping obliges) to a tank, learning how each family of fish act different and how to tend to their requirements, basics of TDS in the water (FW requires TDS sometimes too), when where and how to look for information about my aquarium, basics in aquascaping, and just a feel for keeping underwater livestock because its obviously not the same as keeping a hamster.

If i keep thinking im sure i could find some more things, but they might just be a branch of the things mentioned. But i hope that helps answer your question

 

[LeslieS]

its obviously not the same as keeping a hamster

LOL

Did anyone use the ladder approach?

Also, are there any other nano people in the book club or just reading this thread? Did you start with larger tanks or go straight to nano? What did you think of this section of the chapter?

Steven aka TimberTDI will be starting the thread for Part 1 Chapter 2 next Sunday the 25th. :smile:

 

[Quang]

*for the nano tank people - do you usually use a sump with the nano tank? I would expect that the extra water volume would help with your parameters. If not, how do you keep from having big shifts in your levels?

I didn't do things right. It worked for me, but if I could do it again, things would be a little more automated. I did not have a sump. I had huge shifts in water temperature, especially. Ranging from 72-80 degrees b/w day and night. I manually topped off evaporation. Did 30-40% water changes on a weekly or biweekly basis. All this goes against the idea of stability in a reef environment. My tanks were also jammed pack, in terms of bioload, and just specimens. I had a dwarf angel in a 7g. I'm first to admit I didn't do things correctly, was one of the people that said "Ahhh, I'll give it a go" not being considerate of livestock. I had a fan that turned on with my lights, and the heater that turned on after the lights went out. It's a bit alarming considering the type of gamble I was taking but it worked...certainly don't recommend it and would go about it differently if I'm to do it again. Worst off, I almost never tested for anything! Knowing my tendency to over-react. Had a problem? Did water changes. Something looks off? Did water changes. My livestock got use to such swings and thrived. However, my tank was only up for a few months, hardly enough time to evaluate its "success." However, I was scrupulous in monitoring my tank. I knew the in and outs of every crevice. The fluctuations happened when I was at work or away from home. When I was home, I made sure to keep things as stable as possible (adjusting temperature especially). My point was that I wasn't being negligent, just not as considerate as I could be. Also due to my tanks' inconsistency, I staye away from harder to keep corals like SPS, and clams...even when I upgraded to T-5's. For that reason and others, I don't have a tank now. I want to do things right if I'm to start again. Sorry to give a long answer to your question.

So, in your experience, how does a FW tank prepare a person for reefkeeping? What skills do you feel you've learned keeping freshwater fish that you employ in keeping saltwater? (Not an accusation - I'm genuinely curious)

Basically, what Harif mentioned. For me at least, it was mixing salt to the equation was the big difference. I was really forced to be more informed when keeping a reef tank, then when I kept FW tanks.

 

[ellebelle]

Long answers are the best answers to questions.

 

[ellebelle]

:bump: in case anyone else has anything to add in the next couple of days, before we start the next chapter.