Installing several GFCI outlets and a dedicated circuit - How much should it run me?

[memito]

Hello. I am going to be moving into a new apartment - finally! - and now can start to plan a reef tank.

First thing is first, electrical safety. (Note: The owners have told me that they don't have any problems with hiring an approved electrician to do the work.)

I am planning to convert several outlets in the new apartment to GFCIs and install at least one (probably two - am thinking about purchasing another refrig) dedicated circuits for a chiller.

Given that it can cost $10,000 to paint a 2-bedroom apartment here in NYC, how much should I expect to shell out for 3 GFCI / 2 dedicated circuit job?

Additionally any thoughts on potential issues during the installation I should worry about? (Note: The apartment is an open loft - somewhat finished - but not above being modified.)

Thanks for the help!

 

[inkblue]

:smokin::starfish::chef: fRy is our resident expert on eLectricity...

 

[FRY]

dedicated circuit ? how far from the panel and walls sheetrock ?? allso is building a deck building

 

[memito]

Wow. That was fast! Thanks!

First, because the present tenant in the new apartment will be there until I move in on May 1st, I am not going to have specific answers for your questions until I move in. I will have a better idea for the distances from the circuit box then, but right now, let's say that it is about 20 ft max. (Just a guesstimate.) Or I guess I could try to put the tank as close as possible if distance is going to be an issue.

Second, sorry, I am lost, what is a "deck building"?

Third, on a related but unrelated note, if I wanted to buy another refrigerator, I am assuming that I am going to need an additional dedicated circuit. Is that right?

Why do I feel as if I am getting myself into a mess by thinking about multiple dedicated circuits? :catsmiley

At least, will the GFCI installations not be as complicated?

Thanks again for your help inkblue and FRY!

 

[masterswimmer]

Hey little mem.
Dedicated circuits are absolutely the way to go whenever you are running any type of compressor. A refrigerator runs on a compressor, so that is a definite. Same thing with your chiller, a dehumidifier, etc.

I have a different opinion on GFCI's but I'd rather not get a flame war going.

Good luck on your move,
Russ

 

[memito]

Thanks for the tip about how a refrigerator / compressor = a dedicated circuit.

Dare I ask about your opinion on GFCIs? (You can PM if you want to avoid a flame war.)

Thanks!

 

[masterswimmer]

Thanks for the tip about how a refrigerator / compressor = a dedicated circuit.

Dare I ask about your opinion on GFCIs? (You can PM if you want to avoid a flame war.)

Thanks!

Dummmmm da Dum Dum :Up_to_som

If I venture here, it's because what works for me might not work for someone else. Here goes........

It is against code, at least in Orange and Rockland Counties, for any life support system to be wired through a GFCI. What this means for instance is, if g-d forbid someone had to have a dialysis machine wired. It is against code to use a GFCI. Why? Because GFCI's are known to intermittently trip or fail without real reason.

As a matter of fact, just this week, my GFCI in my bathroom didn't only trip, the GFCI outlet blew. Could not be reset. THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON. It required me to replace the GFCI outlet. Works fine now. No reason it should have blown.

Well obviously we have to consider out tanks life support systems. If a GFCI outlet trips for an unsubstantiated reason and you just left for work in the morning. Your appliances on that circuit (your tank) would be shut down without you being there to reset them, or find out why it tripped. You know the consequences of that after 8 hours.

I have a grounding probe in my tank, but I do not run a GFCI outlet. I have 4 dedicated 20 amp circuits to my tiny 75 gallon tank. So I split my tanks load very well.

You now have MY reasons. Not looking to make a change regardless of the arguments or flaming that may ensue. I've done my reading. I've done my research. I've built MANY homes. I'm familiar with cause and effect. I also do not advocate this method for anybody else but me! lol Go with whatever YOU feel comfortable with. I'm ok with my setup. Everyone else needs to have that same comfort level.

There you have it. You asked for it and in a sense, I guess so did I.

< Holding my hands over my ears >

Russ

 

[FRY]

I have a same opinion on GFCI's as you russ as a electrican of 42 years so far i dont use gfic on my tanks couse of false triping, i do have gfic in the rest of the house,just try to install your outlets away so that you dont splash water on it and you should be safe and ground everything

frank

 

[masterswimmer]

Frank, like I mentioned in my 'flame' post, lol, I've built many homes as general contractor. All the electricians, not helpers, but the older, more experienced experts feel this same way. I'm glad to hear from a veteran such as yourself that 'our way' is not wrong.

I've kept this to myself since starting my reef because every single thread you read on any board has virtually 100% agreement with the whole GFCI thing. Rather than going on those boards and creating a rukus I've elected to remain silent about it. This is actually the first time I've vocalized these sentiments and I'm glad the first post to follow mine is from you. Thanks.

Russ

 

[joseney21]

Dummmmm da Dum Dum :Up_to_som

If I venture here, it's because what works for me might not work for someone else. Here goes........

It is against code, at least in Orange and Rockland Counties, for any life support system to be wired through a GFCI. What this means for instance is, if g-d forbid someone had to have a dialysis machine wired. It is against code to use a GFCI. Why? Because GFCI's are known to intermittently trip or fail without real reason.

As a matter of fact, just this week, my GFCI in my bathroom didn't only trip, the GFCI outlet blew. Could not be reset. THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON. It required me to replace the GFCI outlet. Works fine now. No reason it should have blown.

Well obviously we have to consider out tanks life support systems. If a GFCI outlet trips for an unsubstantiated reason and you just left for work in the morning. Your appliances on that circuit (your tank) would be shut down without you being there to reset them, or find out why it tripped. You know the consequences of that after 8 hours.

I have a grounding probe in my tank, but I do not run a GFCI outlet. I have 4 dedicated 20 amp circuits to my tiny 75 gallon tank. So I split my tanks load very well.

You now have MY reasons. Not looking to make a change regardless of the arguments or flaming that may ensue. I've done my reading. I've done my research. I've built MANY homes. I'm familiar with cause and effect. I also do not advocate this method for anybody else but me! lol Go with whatever YOU feel comfortable with. I'm ok with my setup. Everyone else needs to have that same comfort level.

There you have it. You asked for it and in a sense, I guess so did I.

< Holding my hands over my ears >

Russ

thank you for sharing

 

[FRY]

dont get me wrong gfic are one of the safest device too have in your home but for fish tank its not worth to take the chance of it triping i have had it trip 3 times on my tanks for no reason, i have 2 outlets for tank one gfic and the other normal outlet and a relay wired to them one side of relay is gfic source and other side normal source have tank plug to output of relay with gfic power if the gfic trips the realy flips to normal source and feeds the tank with power from the normal outlet,all 3 times this system save my tank when it trips i reset gfic and power goes back to gfic power

frank

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

10 G's to paint an apartment? Boy am I in the wrong buisness!! Hey I'll do it for 8 LOL!

 

[FRY]

i though he just added a xtra 0 buy mistake ???

 

[SlamaJama]

10 G's to paint an apartment? Boy am I in the wrong buisness!! Hey I'll do it for 8 LOL!

hell im in that business...u should have posted here (on MR), i would have done it for u at an MR price...gl with ur new digs, i kno its exciting...

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Slam jump in there man, LOL 10g's is a really happy b-day :lol_large:biggrinpa

 

[memito]

Alright, now I must say that I am confused.

On one side if I go with the GFCI, it could trip and the tank would be without power. On the other hand, if water leaks or spills I could electrocute myself. Both scenarios suck.

What if I went with the plan to run multiple dedicated lines to the fish tank and divided up the electrical load but still used GFCI outlets? Could this be a compromise?

Additionally, I wanted to get a controller that allowed me to monitor my tank online (ie; from work). I forget which ones allow you to do this, but this could be a way to keep an eye on the equipment ? unless, of course the GFCI the controller is drawing from flips.

Boy, this is complicated. But back to one of my main questions? how much should I expect to spend to change some outlets to GFCI and install one or more dedicated circuits?

Thanks again for all of your help.

PS. I didn't get the paint job - and never would pay anything like that.... just a story of an estimate that a Park Ave friend of a friend....

 

[FRY]

one thing i whould do is have main filter pump on normal power and rest on gfic power that way if gfic trips you loose power but at least you main pump is still runing,as far of cost of changing outlets to gfic around $60.00 each, install new dedicated outlets (2 same cost as to one circuit)around $225 hope this help

frank

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Bill we're just funnin with you LOL. I guess the main thing is to get into the apartment and see what is what in there. Drip loops are a way to keep from getting electrocuted.

Fry's good. Listen to him and he'll not steer you in the wrong direction.

Asking for a price is a little difficult because labor rates and number of outlets determine the amount you will have to pay. Keep in mind too that MR is a great community with people in all different fields that can help you out and they usually don't hit people over the head with outlandish bills.

Get in see what you want done. Then post with specifics, you should be okay.

 

[loismustdie]

I think anyone who has a GFI in their bathroom has seen these things trip for no reason. I don't use GFI on my tank anywhere. I balanced my load on my tank which was easy since my tank is on my first floor and my sump is in my basement. I use ground probes as well and the only submersed units are my heater and pumps on my Euroreef and calcium reactor. Everything else is external. Everything in my house that is run by a compressor is on it's own circut. Chiller, refridgerator, air conditioners.
I'm not saying my way is the right way, but that's the way I do it.

 

[FRY]

around 1992 we did a new building for NYU medical center on first ave and 32 street they had floor labs from 4 floor to 8 floor each lab had a 30 circuit breaker panel with all gfic breakers they would run experiments in the labs after a awhile some experiments were runing for months ,they would come in the mooring and find breakers trips and find disaster from lost of power the outcome was that we remove all gfic breakers and replace with regular breakers around 800, since then I haven't heard of any problems with fail breakers and everything is runing fine