Caribbean Coral Suffers Record Death

[thepudge]

Terrible things like this make it all the more shocking we won't sign the kyoto treaty..

 

[jrodjordan]

The most recent study shows that in the US (I don't know about other countries) there are more trees present now than when the settlers first arrived. You can't believe everything you read and you absolutely have to understand everything you read. Saying we are destroying trees doesn't necessarily mean we are almost out of trees...it just means we are destroying trees. Scientists have a job too and when they publish papers and do studies they are getting paid to do it. It's the same tactic that the news uses to grab your attention "Is your childs toothbrush slowly killing them? News at 10". You have to really look at what is being said. For instance the title of this news article is "Record death in carribean corals." what does that mean? It just means more died this year than "supposedly" has died before. So, just going on the title alone, if up until this point 20 corals in the entire carribean area died a year and this year 21 died, that is enough to make that title a true statement. You have to read objectively.

lol! dude I hope you are being ironic.

no one is saying what you are claiming in academia.

Geologic records and chemistry can tell us life patterns and die off cycles of corals going back millions of years to the beginning of life on the planet.

check out the Natural history Museum on CPW-- it is a start

 

[Quang]

The most recent study shows that in the US (I don't know about other countries) there are more trees present now than when the settlers first arrived. You can't believe everything you read and you absolutely have to understand everything you read. Saying we are destroying trees doesn't necessarily mean we are almost out of trees...it just means we are destroying trees. Scientists have a job too and when they publish papers and do studies they are getting paid to do it. It's the same tactic that the news uses to grab your attention "Is your childs toothbrush slowly killing them? News at 10". You have to really look at what is being said. For instance the title of this news article is "Record death in carribean corals." what does that mean? It just means more died this year than "supposedly" has died before. So, just going on the title alone, if up until this point 20 corals in the entire carribean area died a year and this year 21 died, that is enough to make that title a true statement. You have to read objectively.

Don't get me wrong...I agree with what you're saying about not believing everything you hear/read. As for the trees, I must say I didn't know that fact about trees in the U.S. However, globally I think it would be safe to say if you could take a full earth view now vs. a full earth view 200 years ago, you can bet you'd see a lot more green back then. With that aside, you have to agree that as the human population industrializes, we are not helping the environment at a rate which we are potentially harming it. All in all, I think nature will have a way to balance itself out...but I don't want it in the form of natural disasters that will kill off a great number of organisms (in this case, humans) to achieve that balance.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

All I'm saying is that we are giving ourselves way too much credit for the climate changes on this planet. We are constantly learning new things that totally go against what we believed to be a solid truth. Yes we are effecting change on this planet but wild swings have happened on this planet way before people were around to record it. For instance most of northern africa and the middle east at one time was a lush forest heavily irrigated by streams and rainfall. Now it is a massive expanse of sand and.......angry people who live there. This occurred before the egyptians were an empire. Our scientists stopped logging in old growth forests in the pacific north west here in the US because they believed an endangered species, the spotted owl, was going to disappear because of it. Only a year or so later did they discover that spotted owls didn't just live in old growth forests, they also lived in new growth forests and were in no way an endangered species. I know you all are old enough to remember the HUGE deal that was made about those owls. I'm not saying we have no part in the worlds problems I'm just saying you can't place the blame solely on mankind. There are a lot of things we know about on this planet and even more we think we know. This planet is still in it's infancy and constant change is a given. The polar ice caps were advancing and receding long before we were here. Don't believe everything you read no matter where it is written. There is always somebody with an agenda be it malevolant or benign. For almost every article on some scientific study you can find another willing to contradict it.

 

[ming]

lfsmarineguy, I believe you are giving humans too little credit. I'm sure some of you heard of the passenger pigeons. There was once more passenger pigeons then all the other birds in the world COMBINED, but people shot them all up and now they're extinct. That is a direct contribution from humans. Also, take the dodo bird as well, they're gone as well. Its time we learned its better to protect them and know we saved them then to take the chance in making them extinct. Also, we all know about the green house effect and we are only contributing to it exponentially. Although yes, it would happen anyways without us, but we increase it so much that it would probably take a millenium for nature to do what we do in a decade. And if everybody did a little, we can do a lot in not polluting and using higher mpg cars, and keeping this world a little cleaner for the generations to come.

 

[masterswimmer]

lfsmarineguy, you bring to the table certain arguements that hold their weight in theory, not reality. The amount of damage humans have done to the planet in the last century exponentially dwarfs what humans and nature have done combined in history.

The planet changes on its own. The added result of human intervention does not give nature an opportunity to repair itself as fast as we denude our forests, pollute our water and air, strip our land of its resources, encroach on the natural habitat that provides homes to wildlife and basically expedite the degradation of our home.....earth.

As evidenced by the feedback here of a few people, it's fortunate that there aren't more people that have the same views as you do. At the rate we are destroying our planet, our childrens children will not have as great a legacy to look back on as we do. Sad but true.

Russ

 

[thepudge]

Not to be depressing, but a large number (probably the majority) of people in this country think that way. I mean, look at the government right now -- about as environmentally unfriendly as you can get. Sadly, people don't change unless they realize its in their best interests to do so. Once icecaps melt and NYC is underwater, I am sure something will get done.. Hopefully our buildings will make nice coral reefs.. :tongueani

lfsmarineguy, you bring to the table certain arguements that hold their weight in theory, not reality. The amount of damage humans have done to the planet in the last century exponentially dwarfs what humans and nature have done combined in history.

The planet changes on its own. The added result of human intervention does not give nature an opportunity to repair itself as fast as we denude our forests, pollute our water and air, strip our land of its resources, encroach on the natural habitat that provides homes to wildlife and basically expedite the degradation of our home.....earth.

As evidenced by the feedback here of a few people, it's fortunate that there aren't more people that have the same views as you do. At the rate we are destroying our planet, our childrens children will not have as great a legacy to look back on as we do. Sad but true.

Russ

 

[masterswimmer]

Not to be depressing, but a large number (probably the majority) of people in this country think that way. I mean, look at the government right now -- about as environmentally unfriendly as you can get. Sadly, people don't change unless they realize its in their best interests to do so. Once icecaps melt and NYC is underwater, I am sure something will get done.. Hopefully our buildings will make nice coral reefs.. :tongueani

I don't agree with you there. What people accept and what they truly believe can be worlds apart. I truly believe we are an enormous factor in the degradation of the planet, yet I own three cars, burn fossil fuel for heat, treat my lawn with fertilizer, etc. I'm as much to blame as everyone else.

Just because I am as guilty of abuse as I contend the rest of us are, doesn't mean I believe it is of no consequence to the environment. Belief and acceptance are two different things.

:tired: Very sad state of affairs.
Russ

 

[thepudge]

You're definately right about that. But I think as a general matter, people on this board are far, far more eco-friendly than the general public. Many, many people don't believe global warming is a real issue.

I don't agree with you there. What people accept and what they truly believe can be worlds apart. I truly believe we are an enormous factor in the degradation of the planet, yet I own three cars, burn fossil fuel for heat, treat my lawn with fertilizer, etc. I'm as much to blame as everyone else.

Just because I am as guilty of abuse as I contend the rest of us are, doesn't mean I believe it is of no consequence to the environment. Belief and acceptance are two different things.

:tired: Very sad state of affairs.
Russ

 

[VJ&POOPS]

The point of the article is being misunderstood.

This is not just about extinction, trees, scientists' cunning intent to deceive people one way or the other. Some mentioned we should read objectively, which is true but we should also read to understand.

I want to explain as simple and as briefly as possible. This goes back to my comment - dam you global warming.

It would be nice if our actions didn't have negative consequences but unfortunately it is not the case. The death of corals are related to the effects of global warming (temp rise, water houses parasites, parasites kill corals). Corals are key to forming reefs in the ocean which acts as barriers to hurricanes, believe it or not a reef can significantly reduce the damage a hurricane causes. (read up on the destruction of reefs in our gulf coast and you'll understand why the entire coast is susceptible to immense destruction by hurricanes, e.g. Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans). Hence my point, we loose corals in the ocean, we loose reefs, we face global destruction from hurricanes and if we rely on nature to balance itself out, like someone mentioned, we may be extinct by then.

Rudy

 

[jrodjordan]

I'm not a pessimist by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a realist. I do believe the oceans also have some of the greatest regenerative powers on earth. But everything has its limits.

Russ

Russ you are correct, every drop of water in the ocean is subducted and "filtered" by techtonic plate movement roughly every 5000 years.

The planet will ultimately balance itself as it has in the past, and the water will be cleaned, but the speed it is being contimanted makes it difficult to sustain the nutrients necessary to support current necessary life for our needs.

try dropping a couple copper pennies a in your tank, how many water changes do you think it will take to balance the copper? By the way, the half life of Cu is 5730 years.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

I don't agree with you there. What people accept and what they truly believe can be worlds apart. I truly believe we are an enormous factor in the degradation of the planet, yet I own three cars, burn fossil fuel for heat, treat my lawn with fertilizer, etc. I'm as much to blame as everyone else.

Just because I am as guilty of abuse as I contend the rest of us are, doesn't mean I believe it is of no consequence to the environment. Belief and acceptance are two different things.

:tired: Very sad state of affairs.
Russ

Evidently I am not the one you should all be jumping on. If you know you are an offender to this degree, and continue to do so, than you are just a hypocrite and you have no right to even argue or point fingers at anyone else for what they say. Judge not...
The real problem is uninformed people who are happy to remain ignorant. People who delight in regurgitating what little information they have accumulated from whatever questionable sources. The majority of America is not like me. The majority of America is happy to go along with whatever they are spoon fed like so many sheep. Too many people rely on their news station or news paper as the be all end all for world news.
When I first posted on this thread it was just to say that (in short) this is just one report and you have to look at every aspect of it in an objective manner. But then, as usual, I was attacked for whatever people perceived as an argument. It's quite sad when people argue with little to no actual knowledge of a subject, just argue by reitterating what they hear or read from maybe two sources if they are lucky.
When you stop questioning where all the information out there is coming from and who is finding it than you have become complacent and that is the worst crime against the environment or even your country for that matter. Also, citing species such as the carrier pigeon and the dodo bird is completely off topic. Hunting a species to near extinction is an entirely different argument than world climate. Both are effected by man but they are too different to lump together for the sake of this argument.
I'll say it again for everyone's benefit since nobody else read it before. In a recent census, I think back a few years now, they discovered that there are more trees in the US right now than there were when the Mayflower landed. If 5,000,000 people say something ridiculous, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Remember that the next time you read something.

 

[jrodjordan]

lol!

In a recent census, I think back a few years now, they discovered that there are more trees in the US right now than there were when the Mayflower landed. If 5,000,000 people say something ridiculous, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Remember that the next time you read something.

can you site an academic reference on this?
I'll give you this, you are partly right:
since the 1920's America has had a plan to regenerate the forests (althought it is a very different than the old/ original forest) and it is helping.

BUT

if you compare forests from the 1600's or even as recently as the 1800's to today, 90% of the virgin forests that once covered much of the lower 48 states have been cleared away. Most of the remaining old-growth forests in the lower 48 states and Alaska are on public lands. This is not debated in the hard sciences.

 

[masterswimmer]

Evidently I am not the one you should all be jumping on. If you know you are an offender to this degree, and continue to do so, than you are just a hypocrite and you have no right to even argue or point fingers at anyone else for what they say. Judge not...
The real problem is uninformed people who are happy to remain ignorant. People who delight in regurgitating what little information they have accumulated from whatever questionable sources. The majority of America is not like me. The majority of America is happy to go along with whatever they are spoon fed like so many sheep. Too many people rely on their news station or news paper as the be all end all for world news.
When I first posted on this thread it was just to say that (in short) this is just one report and you have to look at every aspect of it in an objective manner. But then, as usual, I was attacked for whatever people perceived as an argument. It's quite sad when people argue with little to no actual knowledge of a subject, just argue by reitterating what they hear or read from maybe two sources if they are lucky.
When you stop questioning where all the information out there is coming from and who is finding it than you have become complacent and that is the worst crime against the environment or even your country for that matter. Also, citing species such as the carrier pigeon and the dodo bird is completely off topic. Hunting a species to near extinction is an entirely different argument than world climate. Both are effected by man but they are too different to lump together for the sake of this argument.
I'll say it again for everyone's benefit since nobody else read it before. In a recent census, I think back a few years now, they discovered that there are more trees in the US right now than there were when the Mayflower landed. If 5,000,000 people say something ridiculous, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Remember that the next time you read something.

I have every right to judge, regardless of my participation in our creature comforts. I notice you are living in LI. Without knowing for sure (mere conjecture) I'd probably be correct if I said you own at least one probably two cars, use fossil fuel for heat and fertilize your lawn as well. You're just denying that you are contributing to the problem. I am stating that I understand what is happening by what the vast majority, of at least the american population, is contributing to the environmental problem. You on the other hand are denying it. Denouncing all human responsibility of the effect on the reefs in question.

You state that nature has done things like this in the past and it will again in the future. That we should basically take it with a grain of salt as to where the one or two reports are coming from. The first step in all the 12 step programs is at least acceptance of a problem. You need to rethink your ideals and at least recognize that the human race IS a factor in the problem at hand.

 

[jrodjordan]

but ironically, the CO2 released from cars, increases forests, but not necessarily the desired species. It causes some species of plant to force out others-->Think of it like 1 type of coral taking over your tank. (Brazil is having a big problem with this issue)
this is not a good thing... plant diversity, like a coral reef, is important to sustain known life.

 

[masterswimmer]

but ironically, the CO2 released from cars, increases forests, but not necessarily the desired species.

What about the burning of gasoline and the effect on global warming? There is more than one negative effect on the planet than just the desired species benefiting from the CO2.

 

[jrodjordan]

What about the burning of gasoline and the effect on global warming? There is more than one negative effect on the planet than just the desired species benefiting from the CO2.

yep, depending on the chemical composition of the gas, it too could disrupt the atmosphere and contribute to climate change. not good either.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

Master, if you bothered to read you would know that I in no way said that we had no part in the earths problems. I merely pointed a few things out on a subject that happens to be very important to all of us. If you are looking to argue I can assure you I am not the guy to start with especially if you are going to butcher what was said and use it as if it were a valid point. Go back and read my posts. Also, when has it ever been excusable to do something wrong as long as you know it is wrong? Masquerading as someone who is genuinely worried about the environment and in the same breath say you are doing absolutely nothing to help is beyond me. I can't imagine the reaction a police officer would have if he pulled me over for speeding and I told him he couldn't give me a ticket because I already knew I was endangering the public and breaking the law. After which I go and tell people that speeding is wrong and we need to do something about it. Yet, Master, you continue to speed. For your information I have one car, my yard is peat gravel with some evergreen plants, they are watered, and my heat is natural gas. Don't assume anything, you know what happens when you do. I would suggest you take a long deep look at yourself before you post again trying to bash me. Knowing you are an offender never made it ok.

 

[masterswimmer]

LFS, the problem with your posts is that I did read every word. They completely dismiss the fact that you are as guilty as the rest of the world in the problem. You are just to blind to see it. You use natural gas? That exonerates you? LOL. I'm guessing the natural gas you use is synthetic and doesn't add to the global warming. Very interesting, please share your wonder with the rest of us so we can all revel in the use of your environmentally safe fuel.

You ONLY have one car. I believe your exact words were, "If you know you are an offender to this degree, and continue to do so, than you are just a hypocrite and you have no right to even argue or point fingers at anyone else for what they say." Then you go on to say, "Master, if you bothered to read you would know that I in no way said that we had no part in the earths problems." So now who's the hypocrite? Shouldn't cast stones when living in glass houses LFS.

Your arguements, at numerous times stated that we shouldn't always believe what we read in the media. I couldn't agree with you more. But then you go on to explain how this travesty in the Caribbean is nothing more than a natural occurance that has happened many times in the past. You cited examples. None of your arguements ever included the fact that people have helped to accelerate the calamity and, possibly irreversible at that.

You discounted a previous poster for making a comparison to the dodo bird and carrier pigeon yet you make a ridiculous analogy about speeding and the police? By reading your posts (and yes, I've read all of them), I'd think you could do much better than that.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

Master you are adding things to my argument as if I had said them and I have not. I never dismissed myself, I have no idea where you got that from. I never dismissed the coral deaths as a natural occurrence entirely. One would hope that by the age of 46 we would have better reading comprehension than this. The problem with this thread as it is most places is that when you discuss a topic such as this, that everyone has a view on, you get a few people who will voice an opinion and pass it off as fact with no supporting research of their own. This is the last time I am posting on this thread because it has become an exercise in futility. You'll continue to quote me out of context and claim things I never said. The problem with arguing with an idiot is that he will drag you down to his level and win through experience. Master, I never said anything hypocritic by any stretch of the word, the same cannot be said for you. Maybe you should have someone else read my posts for you so they can explain what was said before you continue to argue about points that were never made in the first place. :scratch: