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PercuLa Pimp

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Im ponderin about usin this dope little 12 gal eclipse versus a 10 gal glass for a nano reef. the eclipse is just more aesthetically pleasin but the lighting and filter are self contained at the top..looks more clean cut and also the option of drilling into the acrylic to put refugiums or powerheads or something looks doable..just wondering if anyone has tried one or would recommend or trash the lil guy...lemme kno wassu[D
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apparent

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I've heard of people modifying there eclipses, I have no expierence at it though. Ditch all the crap in the filter and throw some live rock rubble in there and upgrade the lighting, add a powerhead or 2, Do 10% weekly water changes and you got yourself a nano my friend
 
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PercuLa Pimp

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Sounds like a plan to me...but im planning on having a nano with a lot of coral, inverts and 2, 3, or 4 fish...can LR handle all O that on its own w/o help of skimmaZz and JunKK??...
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A

apparent

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Yep most people who run nanos don't use skimmers at all and just rely on LR and LS for filtration and weekly water changes check out nano-reef.com for info
 

Snipes

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I have a 12 gallon Eclipse Nano...and I have been keeping it going for over 2 years. I have one clownfish and one pseudochromis. I have about 20 lbs of live-rock, 12 pounds of live sand, one hang-on refugium with miracle mud and Caulerpa Algae for nutrient export, and I also have a coral banded invert shrimp and a cool starfish. I also have a reef-janitor cleanup crew.

Now..here's the reality. You don't need a skimmer, but your tnk will most likely deteriorate over time. I run both a refugium and a AquaC Remora skimmer. Also ,in the refugium, I would have bio balls, southdown sand, macroalgae, all on a 24 hour photoperiod with PC lights.

If you are looking to have corals, you MUST retrofit the crappy Eclipse light with another more powerful PC from Hello Lights or AHSupply.

Becuase of the limited amount of water (less than 12 gallons if you count the displacement from the rock and sand), you must be vigilant about doing your water chenges every week. If you don't, then things will go south quickly.

And, I cannnot see how anyone (and I mean ANYONE) could successfully keep more than 2 fish in the 12 gallon. Fish produce so much waste (even when fed sparingly)...so if you have more than 2 fish -- and aren't skimming, your Live Rock would slowly deteriorate...and coral and other inverts would be difficult to sustain.

Just my 2 cents, but I really do have true experience with a nano. 2 fish maximum. I guarantee that if you get more than two fish, you will learn the hard way that Nanos just can't take a heavy bio-load. The key to success is dilution and nutrient export via mcroalgae. Skimmer is needed....don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Good Luck
 
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apparent

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I have never kept a nano myself but know lots who do although I'm planning on maybe setting up a small 10g since selling my larger tank for financial reasons. I really don't know what specs actually make up a nano tank. I would consider a nano anything you can pickup when filled I suppose. Most of the people I have known who have nanos don't use skimmers at all and they look great. LR/LS and weekly water changes is all they do. I did have a 20g and used a remora skimmer and it worked great however for the nano I'm planning I will be going skimmerless I will just be using a aquaclear 300 filled with LR rubble mainly to disrupt the surface water for gas exchange.
 
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apparent

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Snipes..bioballs?!?! That is a no no on a reef tank my friend
 
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PercuLa Pimp

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I know of changing the light system for it to be reef worthy, but what keeps me at ends is this whole skimmer ordeal..many say dont many say do...its my first nano....i have a 75 G fish only Saltwater so i know of what target water quality is...but i dont know what my limmits are... i also hear running a skimmer will start a vicious cycle of adding trace elements it removes...but at the same time running natural will water changes suffice??

Im very confused and i thank u both for ur input by the way, i just ask is there anyway i can keep something this small w/o the threat of polluting itself
 
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apparent

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As long as you keep up on your weekly water changes there is no need for a skimmer, weekly water changes replenish nutrients in the water. Heres a piece of article about skimmers on a nano reef:
"Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky.Protein skimmers are beneficial however, because they remove excess nutrients from the water, but this advantage is out weighed by the disadvantages. To remove the excess nutrients from this system you do a partial water change. The water change also doubles to replenish your trace elements, which are in your synthetic sea salt. Nitrates are removed, dissolved organic compounds are removed, and your trace elements are replaced. Your nitrates will always be at or near zero, and the elements will stay at a constant level."

Hope this helps you find the whole article here:
http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=3

I am about to setup a nano and have done much research on the subject before attempting to do this
 
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apparent

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By the way this is not my only source of information on the subject, I have read quite a few other articles about this all state the same thing. Keep in mind you can use a skimmer if you like Or you could just do the weekly 10% water changes which for a 12 gallon is like a little over a gallon which takes probably what like 10min to do?I don't think 10min a week is that much of a chore IMO. Check nano-reef.com's forums reefcentral.com reefs.org and check there nano section you will see not many use skimmers.

[ July 18, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: apparent ]
 

Snipes

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Apparent,

I did much research and reading -- in fact for MONTHS before setting up a my 12g nano.

I'm speaking from my own experience (from 2 successful years running a nano) that the skimmer made a world of difference for me. The "refugium mud" leaches the trace elements back into the water on a regualr basis (look up the Ecosystem technology)...so only a simple dosing solution is required.

Weekly water changes DO make a big difference, but, over time, as the tank matures, you will see that conditions slowly change. I'm speaking from my own hands-on experience (not just research).

I know there are alot of ways to get to the top of the hill, so keep in mind that there is no "tried and true" single method. Many methods work well.

My experience showed that, after about a year, my nano needed a skimmer. Keep in mind, that I, too, thought that a skimmer was not required (because of all of the research I did on nano-reef.com -- literally months of reading).

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you will see that your filtration theories (gained during your research) might need to be modifified as you gain more hands-on experience. It's the typical scientific method.

Good luck with going skimmerless, I'm sure it will work fine -- it works for a few frineds of mine. I'm sticking to my skimmer -- because in my case, via empirical evidence, skimming, alon with my refugium and macroalgae export, works better for me. My water conditions are flawless -- I have corraline growing everywhere.

Happy Nano-reefing.
 
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apparent

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Don't get me wrong snipes I'm not trying to argue with you. I will admit you have the upper hand as you do have experience with nanos
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I'm just going by what I read and have seen. I don't see how your system would go down the drain though as long as you kept up on the weekly water changes unless you added a larger bioload I wouldn't go more then 2 fish on a tank less then 15g
 

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