Large tank on a shaky floor question....

[memito]

For a long while now, I have been thinking about getting a large tank ? something glass at least 6 ft long and 2 ft wide ? probably over 200 gallons (my dream set up would be over 400 gallons). On that note, I have a shaking floor problem that is really bothering me.

My 4th floor apartment is divided by three concrete pillars that support a large beam that runs the length of the apartment (and feels like it could be made of concrete). In any case, on one side of the pillars, my couch and bed shake when a truck goes down adjacent Church St but when my couch was on the other side of the apartment, I felt absolutely nothing.

After talking to my landlord, I found out that while the 2nd floor is concrete, the floors above it have wooden frames - and evidently somewhat suspect ones if the building is shaking when trucks go by. My building is a 5-story walk-up with a large service elevator. As noted, I suspect that the building above the 2nd floor has a concrete ?frame? but wooden floors and sub floors. I am going to talk to my landlord again to confirm this hunch.

I was planning to put a tank between the pillars and along the support beams. While I think that the support beam will be able to take the weight of a tank, I am afraid that vibrations from the surrounding ?shaking? floor might have an impact on the tanks long-term health ? via amplifying any micro-fractures, for example.

A couple of related questions:

1. Would a ?shaky? floor worry you as much as it worries me?

2. Are there tank size limits when dealing with primarily wooden floors? (I am talking about the 100-500 gallon range.)

3. Is there a significant safety difference between using a wooden or steel frame to support a large tank?

Intuitively I would think that a wooden frame would give the tank move wiggle room yet would better absorb vibrations. But I can?t see how there could be any sort of failure from a steel tank other than a bad weld.

Thank you for your answers and thoughts. Any other issues I might want to think about would be appreciated as well.

Thanks again.

Bill

 

[Domboski]

1. Would a ?shaky? floor worry you as much as it worries me?

Yes especially when dealing with glass aquariums

2. Are there tank size limits when dealing with primarily wooden floors? (I am talking about the 100-500 gallon range.)

Read this article: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

3. Is there a significant safety difference between using a wooden or steel frame to support a large tank?

See my answer to question 2

 

[jhale]

Bill, shaking floors are a common thing in the city.
My floor shakes when trucks go by, I've had a glass tank in the same spot for seven years with no problems.
Given the age of your building and it's location, and knowing how the buildings in the area are constructed your safe with a decent sized tank.

You have those two massive support columns, they are sitting on large sized joists. If the floor is wood then those joists are massive to support the weight of the building. those are load bearing columns, I doubt a tank would make much difference to the floor at that location. It would be like placing a tank directly over a load bearing wall.

a 220 gallon would be a good size for your space, it's 6'Lx30"Wx24"H

 

[masterswimmer]

Bill, There a number of things you need to consider here. First, like Jon said, buildings in NYC are built to sway in high winds. I hope this isn't a politically incorrect direction here, but even the Twin Towers were built to sway approximately 12' in high winds.

Now, as for the construction of your building. I would be very interested to know if the two columns in your apt are run all the way to the foundation. If they run from one apt to the one above from foundation through your apt, then the likelihood is that there is a girder running between them. Or possibly a girder running from an exterior wall to the column itself. Either way, it would be really helpful to know those construction parameters.

The girder that is somewhere in your floor system will have floor joists running perpendicular to them. What you'll want to do is locate the tank directly above the girder, if possible (ideal). If that's not possible, then try to run the tank perpendicular to the floor joists closest to a bearing wall (exterior wall or girder).

Would it be possible for you to get into the basement? You might find exposed framing in the boiler room or someplace similar. The framing above should follow the same 'pattern' as that in the basement. Carry it up to your apt and you should be able to identify exactly where the most stable location is.

swimmer

 

[nycmat]

i dont know about you but personally if i had to think about that i would go smaller so it wouldnt be an issue. but thats me. remember you want the tank to go over as many beams to offset the wieght. if you look on rc there is a calculator that can give you the actual wieght of the tank. just my 2 cents. hope i could help
matt

 

[scarf_ace1981]

memito i live in the city and i have wooden floors. i have a 120 in my room and a 40br in the living room.

i doubt you will have any problems. i've been told that if my floors can hold my 120 i should move out. what i suggest is getting a 6ft 125g this way you can spread the weight out over more surface area.

 

[ShaunW]

Read this article: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

AWESOME article. THANKS for the link!

 

[Domboski]

AWESOME article. THANKS for the link!

No problem! I obviously had the same concerns at one time.

 

[Wes]

my floor vibrates when my washer hits the spin cycle...

 

[nemo]

Construct a simple platorm which is longer than the tank stand by getting 3 solid pieces of wood measuring eight foot by one foot (don't know if they make 'em any longer than 8') and putting them together. Then put your tank on top of it. The wood platform will disbuse the weight of the tank over a larger surface area and will cover more joists thus lessening the payload.

 

[reefman]

regardless of what size tank u decides, i would get extra home owners insurance for the 1st year

 

[masterswimmer]

regardless of what size tank u decides, i would get extra home owners insurance for the 1st year

Actually the first year wouldn't be the problem. The floor system wouldn't fail immediately or even after a year. The likelihood of it failing would be over the course of sustained weight over years. It most likely wouldn't shear, but sag over time. The sag could redistribute the weight and cause tank failure.....once again, over time.

swimmer

 

[Henrye]

.......My building is a 5-story walk-up with a large service elevator......

It sounds like your building was once used for manufacturing, as walk ups usually don't have large service elevators. Assuming your flooring was not changed during a building renovation (besides, who would renovate to replace a strong floor with a weak one), your floor construction must meet commercial needs, which means a higher load per square foot than residential construction. I think that as long as you're crossing joists (especially if they're connected onto load bearing columns) you will not have any problem. I wouldn't worry too much about the vibration from passing trucks, as I've had that in new construction with concrete floors. I'd be hard pressed to see how it could affect your tank if you have it on a sturdy, level base, with perhaps some fiber board under it for weight distribution (which will also dampen any vibration passing through to the tank). Now, if you find that you really can't keep that 200g there, can you let me know when you'll post it on FS/FT ?:lol_large

 

[memito]

Thank you for all of your responses.

Yeah, I get shivers just thinking about a large tank leaking - or god forbid, EXPLODING. The funny thing is that I have a had a 120 and 135 on relatively uneven floors before - but that was before I realized how long-term exposure to uneven surfaces could lead to disaster. (The used 135 Perfecto (uh... Perfectos freak me out) eventually did leak.)

I have a feeling that putting a tank along a main support beam will prevent the floor or tank from going anywhere. I just want to make certain that I do it right. Before even buying such a tank, I am going to have to talk to my landlord and figure out how the floor is laid out.

By the way, just to clarify, when I mentioned wood versus steel stand, I was refering to a full frame like base - not the metal stands with 4 feet.

Thanks again for your help.

I will keep you informed of my progress.

 

[jhale]

all the old buildings in Tribecca were either industrial or warehouse's.
they all have way more support than normal residential homes.

how cool is your landlord? if you start asking him lots of questions about how strong the floor is your liable to freak him/her out.

 

[memito]

Yeah, I am hoping that the building is an "old school" design....

As for my landlords (two brothers in their 70's and one of their sons), they are pretty cool. When I was signing the lease I wanted to make certain I could have pets (cats, dogs, fish, ... you know, the normal animals)... both of the brothers started laughing about how they had one tenant that had a iguana and three freaked out cats :meow: and another that had a boa constrictor that kept on "growing and growing and growing" with each rat they fed it.:bigeyes2:

To say the least, I think they are rather liberal with pets... but, I get the impression that NYC landlords in general are far more worried about a 12lb dog that violates the 10lb limit than they are of a 200 gallon tank of water sitting in the middle of their buidling. Strange...