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Anonymous

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I do not think people should be told not to persue anemones if they can provide the right enviroment. Please read this post by Jim Hobbs

very informative Anemone post

[ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: Fishaholic ]
 
A

Anonymous

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Allen I agree with what you feel.

On the other hand I rally think the keeping of anemones is about to turn the corner. Yes they will be kept by people that just said Wow I have to have one, "IS that a Saltwater or Frehwater plant?" Moreso people are very much getting to where they are taking thse animals very serious. Even with all the info one thse people still post that they do not need to feed it. Things are changing and with the right lightng and tank mates we may see these animals flourishing like no time in history. I am very excited about thee advancements being made in both information and dispelling myths.
 

slash7

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I agree that giving anemones proper care will probably become easier as we learn more about them and discover new methods of keeping our tanks at optimum levels. And as Anemone of the State posted, captive propagated anemones are becoming available, and hopefully as generations of them are propagated they will become more acclimated to captive conditions. A few short years ago, keeping SPS corals was not at all common, and the success rate was very low. We now have many species of SPS corals that are kept with great success. It is a shame that most LFS will sell an anemone as a "hardy" animal.
 
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Anonymous

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And now there is an opposing view to Jim Hobbs post from Ritteriandbubbles.
 

naesco

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I love anemones. I think it is the ultimate to be able to be sucessful in keeping one with a clown. To this day it is very hard for me to pass them by in the LFS.
One day I will get one.
The experts should continue their research into sucessful husbandry of them so that one day we all can keep them.
But in the meantime the rest of us should ensure that everything that can be done is done to keep them in the sea and out of LFS.
That includes IMO, commentary on this Board.
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Quillen

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Only the future will tell, but I hope others and I will be passing our anemones down to our grand children
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. If I have the marine tank I want, it is going to be in my will and fabulous. Right now, my fish & tanks go to my ex sig other if I die, as he could keep them all healthy and knows my attachment to Fred (maroon) & Andy. I have friends that can't keep a damsel alive, so I couldn't recommend keeping one to everyone.
 

Snapple

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I'm not sure if what I am about to say would be considered irrepsonsible or not, but these are some thoughts I have on the matter of anemones (and corals in general).

There are some very valid arguments why hobbyists shouldn't be keeping certain species like goniopora, dendronepthya, etc. (or any corals, for that matter). Likewise, I believe there are some strong arguments that support an ethically and responsibly-run reef industry that includes the importation of these same animals.

It is undoubtedly true that most anemones end up dying within a year of their purchase. I worked at an LFS and we would sell many, many anemones and often to the same customers. Almost everyone I know in the hobby has lost an anemone or two (or more). There clearly are some species which do poorly and some that do well. Does the fact that anemones are short-lived in captivity, by itself, mean we shouldn't be keeping them? I don't think so.

Corals, sponges, gorgonians, anemones, etc. are not the same as dogs and cats or even brittle starfish. I don't think we necessarily have an ethical responsibility to guarantee these animals a long life in captivity like we would a goldfish. I think a dog or hermit crab owner does have an ethical responsiblity to ensure the animal leads a "long and happy life". Corals and anemones are like cactus and tulips. They are pretty to look at but they don't have feelings and they don't suffer the way a higher vertebrate would.

If Entacmaea quadricolor were captive reared in greenhouses by the millions, who cares if thousands of them die in hobbyist's tanks each year. There isn't any environmental impact and people get pretty decorations for their homes. I know a lot of people who have an amazing ability to kill houseplants. I wouldn't consider these people to be unethical human beings.


But everything above is basically moot since these animals are not captive bred (for the most part) and we are probably not harvesting them from the wild in a sustainable manner. Let me backpedal a bit and make it clear that I do think hobbyists have an ethical responsibility to keep animals alive if their collection/sale has a negative impact on the natural environment. I don't know too much about anemone collection, but I would hazard to guess that we are collecting the more popular species at an unsustainable rate/

Like I said at the beginning of the post, it might be irresponsible to say these things because it is practically impossible to separate all these issues. So if nothing else just some "food for though". Let me state for the record that at least 75% of my livestock is captive reared and that there are many invert species I wish would be left in the ocean. I do have a quadricolor, and it has split on two occasions!
 

coyoteman0

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Alright I know have I haven't been here long - But that last post is just sickening.
To classify a anemone as a common plan that doesn't have feelings or emotions is just off the wall.

Anemones are some of the most beautiful, probably smartest living things in exsistance. To say know one has a moral obligation who buys one of these to help it lead a long and healthful life is like saying a child that is not born does not deserve to live a life at all (Maybe going a bit sarcastic here now) -

Everything - Everything we put into our aquariums that come from this earth - No matter if we humans helped make it or weather we unwillingly brought it here as a slave for our entertainment we have an obligation to keep it alive if we buy it.

Do we have a right to keep this stuff ? Yes I think we do - But I think the hobby should learn more about what we are dealing with and how to keep them before the LFS will sale you 5 SeaBae Anemoes one week after you have set up your first reef tank with 1 40 actinic on it..............

That is all I am going to say because If I keep going I will probably start flaming, cursing, calling you names, and no telling what else -------- I am going to do something to ensure my moral obligations are being done to MY TANK untill I cool off.
 
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Anonymous

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The line moves because it is a judgement call.

The line for me is if I care for it regardless of how it is classified, I have an obligation to educate myself and provide it with as good or better quality of life it had in the wild.

That is the standard I hold myself to, for others mileage may vary.
 

Green Lantern

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Just to give credit where it is due: the article was written by Rob Toonen and is in the library here at reefs.org among other places.
 
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Anonymous

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Troy

Iseen his name at the top but was unclear if he authored it. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Snapple

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Coyoteman...

I respect that you find my viewpoint to be sickening (in truth I hadn't expected to get this strong a response) but I think that you are among the very small minority of people who feel that anemones are the "smartest living things in existence". Anemones do not have brains in the same sense that you or I do, and they are not capable of higher thought processes. Anemones do not have feelings, do not feel pain (in the sense that a vertebrate would) and do not comprehend suffering, abuse, or neglect.

You wrote that my comments were "off the wall" since I claimed that anemones do not have feelings or emotions. I do not believe that you will find any marine biologist in the world who will support, let alone test the theory that anemones have emotions. Does the caulerpa in your refugium experience emotions and feelings? Does it feel sad when you perform your monthly harvest, or become frustrated when your lightbulbs shift spectrum?

Getting back to the point of my post, I was just stressing the fact that anemones and corals SHOULD be protected and this industry/hobby should be run in a responsible and ethical manner. I actually look forward to the day where the biology, technology, and money is available to successfully captive rear corals by the millions to be sold in Home Depot's gardening section. At that point I won't be too concerned with the fact that Joe Schmoe down the street is killing his corals by the tankful (like houseplants). I will be VERY relieved and happy to know that the world's reefs have one less pressure and destructive force at work.

Now the question is, if that purple-tipped, 12" wide acropora was at Home Depot for $9.99, how many of you would be interested in it?
 
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Anonymous

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snapple:
<STRONG>

Now the question is, if that purple-tipped, 12" wide acropora was at Home Depot for $9.99, how many of you would be interested in it?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are posting with the intent to get te responses you want to achieve. Most children are very good at this. Your statements are not very orginized nor well thought out.

The statement above is due more to lack of reading the people on this board and seeing what they feel about aquaria in general.

I have 5 tiger barbs in my 90 gallon that I paid $1.50 for a piece one I have had for three years. Ivalue thse animals as much as my fish, my parrots, my dog, my cats, my sugar glider everyone of them.

It is you assigning money values to life and anthropamorphic value to animals emotions. because you think one has emotions and one does not, you value one over the other. This is your reasoning, not ours.

From my time here and other boards i would say over 95% of the people here care deeply for all living things in there care, maybe someday you will too and not feel the need to assign value to life.

Again your statements attempting to bait responses is nothing new, and poorly constructed.
 

SPC

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Dave, I think he is serious, if he read the Tang and the THREE STRIKES threads he probably figures he finally found a home.
Steve

[ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: SPC ]
 

Quillen

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From a religious point of view, I think it is regardless of advanced pain receptors, I like to think everything has a spirit. My superior (Biologist) that I report to for fish things at SMSU says that fish should be treated like carrots, because I don't believe anything should be flushed and use my sick tank with good success. He figures we can get another one, so this isn't an uncommon theme. There are always going to be opposing views in science and the marine world, hopefully people can be nice about it. I wouldn't buy anything 12" for my tank, I stick to fish the size of quarters & small corals
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since I have a apt-sized tank. However, whatever opinion you have is your opinion and I am glad that you shared it, thank you for giving me that perspective. I have recently killed a flowering plant, went away for the weekend, and set up a self watering system for my plants. When I came back, I was out of water, the neighbors cats had been on my balcony drinking out of the bucket (one of my neighbor thought I left it out for my dog & didn't stop them) and a very water sensitive plant was browning. I guess I should of took it inside and set up the system there. Welcome to our home of fish discussion, I would think everyone has a place here.
 

slash7

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I think the point is that most don't provide the right environment. Anemones certainly can be kept, but most of the people that buy them have no idea how to properly care for them.
 
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Anonymous

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I think one option is to get a captive propagated bubble tip from someone (like Dr. Ron) and provide very good lighting and care. This minimizes environmental impact.
 

allenfrenchy

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I read the post you linked to and the conclusion I came away with is more like:
"Almost no one should be keeping anemones because the success rate is abysmal even in the best hands."
and
"If you simply must keep an anemone, only do so after you have years of reef-keeping experience, have read extensively on the species you intend to keep and have committed a tank specifically to the care of the anemone. And even then remember that you will likely be keeping the animal alive for only about 1/100th of it's natural life-expectancy."
Although I have had a "dream" of one day keeping an anemone, I found the article very discouraging as well as informative. I think I will stick to animals which I can provide for better than that.
 

EmilyB

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Anemones are not for the inexperienced, or the immature tank. They are incredible animals, and bring with them incredible responsibility. They could/should live very long, and can, depending on species ,grow very huge.

I enjoy my anemones, and worry for their future, should I be so lucky they will last that long. Bubbletip anemones are propagating readily in captivity, and many people including myself, have clones. Consider that first, if you feel you are ready for an anemone.
 

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