External Return Pump Recommendations Please...

[liquid]

I would like to get some feedback on selecting a return pump for my tank upgrade that I'm working on. This is the first design that I've done that incorporates a sump and return pump and I'm planning on running the return pump externally from the sump to the main tank. In reviewing the product literature on Champion Lighting's website, it looks like I have a number of options:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Iwaki (US or Japan made)
Little Giant
Gen-X Mak4
GRI
Velocity
Mag
</UL>

So far from my searching and talking to people, I have found the following:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Iwaki: go with Japan made as the quality standard is higher and the American ones sometimes have noise problems
GRI: Equivalent to Iwaki's, but a little more noisy. However, these pumps can be run dry for 8 hrs w/ minimal problems (not that I want to do this!

)
Mag: Tend to heat up and there is some leakage problems with the threads occasionally.
</UL>

Could I get some additional feedback on first hand experience with the above mentioned pumps in the first list run as external pumps in sump applications?

Thanks!

liquid

 

[SteveP]

I've been running a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC for 5 months now with no problems. It's not very loud either. My firend has been running the same model for a year and a half, plus he's using a 3MD for a huge DIY skimmer he built. You do have to oil the Q series every six months though.

Steve
8{I

 

[Jawfishski]

Liquid,

I would think the noise issue attributed to the American Iwakis is more attributed to the fans on the larger models.

Depending on the size of the tank, you might want to consider the AmpMaster 3000.

Just my $.02

 

[NMreefer]

I've been running LG's for 3 years with absolutely no probs. One for return and one for skimmer. Just make sure you buy the "Q" series pump, much quieter!

Phillip

 

[Speed]

I've been running 2 Iwaki's for over 8 years continous{except for power outages}and have had no problems.Was told that most problems with external pumps are heat related so I used two computer fans to moove air into the motor fan and these motors are never more than slightly warm to the touch. For price and moving high volumes of water the ampmaster 3000 seems great but they haven't been around long enough to test reliability. M2C

 

[henkelsfamily1]

Spend the coin and get an ampmaster. There are many sizes to chose from check out web pagefor model selection then do your shoping around. you will be suprised that on the 3000 I found about a 80.00 price differance from lowest to highest. Good Luck

WALTER

 

[jdeets]

I run a GRI. Completely silent. I'm not sure where the noise idea came from. Mine is silent and runs very cool.

 

[Anonymous]

My GRI ran very quietly as well.

 

[Jeff_S]

Running a Dolphin Amp Master 3000. Quiet pump with good output and low power consumption.

 

[jamesw]

To answer some of your questions (I have run an Iwaki 20rlt and 40rlt and a GRI 520, Dolphin SS1200, and various mags, eheims, etc):

The smaller Iwakis (20 and 30) do not have fans and run absolutely silent. I don't like the american motors, if you're going to go american, might as well save the money and get a little giant.

The GRI's put out the same noise level as the iwaki's (when comparing apples to apples, can't compare a fanless pump to one w/ a fan).

The reliability is the same for the GRI pumps as for japanese Iwakis.

For return pumps, the RLXT's are better. Pressure pumps are for skimmers, but you don't start getting any benefit from the pressure pumps till you start hitting high head, so it's a wash w/ most skimmers.

That's all I can think of now, hope that helps.

James Wiseman

 

[bowfront]

I've run small Jap Iwaki's and also GRI's in the past. I still have a couple of GRI 510's and prefer them a little over Iwaki. BTW, they are just as quiet and dependable as MD Iwaki's IMO. I'm currently running a Mag externally to see how they work that way. It's a little noisier than an Iwaki or GRI but doesn't throw much heat at all. The loose thread thing with Mags is no big deal. You just have to wrap them a little extra with teflon. Not sure what size tank you have but if you can handle a larger pump the Dolpbin ampmaster would be another good choice.

 

[liquid]

Hey, how long have the GRI's been around compared to the Iwaki's anyhow? Are they relatively new to the SW aquaria hobby? I know the Iwaki's have been around for quite a while...

liquid

 

[bowfront]

liquid, my oldest GRI dates back to around 95. They are made by Gorman Rupp, which has been around a lot longer than that. Gorman Rupp is a well know U.S. maker of industrial pumps but has not tried to enter the aquarium market in any heavy manner. Someone down here in FL used to have the distribution rights for GRI's but that didn't last long and then Champion Lighting started selling them. Now some of the others like PA are also carrying them. They are good heavy duty pumps but parts such as impellers are expensive and often have to be dropped shipped from the manufacturer. BTW, my original purchased in 95 is still running fine. Good luck with your decision.

 

[liquid]

Thanks for all the replies so far! They've been of great help.

After reviewing all of these posts and talking to people on chat and the mailing lists, I've narrowed my decision down to 3 pumps for my 50 gallon tank:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* Iwaki MD 20 RLXT (Japan, 540 gph @ 4' head, circulation rated, max head 8', 52 watts)
* Iwaki MD 30 RLT (Japan, 510 gph @ 4' head, pressure rated, max head 17', 115 watts)
* GRI #510 (570 gph @ 6' head, max head 11', 102 watts, can be run dry for 8 hrs w/ no damage to pump)</UL>

Part of my choice stems from my desire to make this purchase scale-able (i.e. I want to be able to use this on a future larger tank like a 120 gal or maybe 150 gal). Based on that desire, I believe the Iwaki MD 20 RLXT is out of the running as I don't like the low max head and the flow at 4' head. I'm guessing that I'll have close to 5' - 6' head when I'm all done with this upgrade b/c of fittings, height that I have to pump, etc, and I'm concerned that this will not be enough flow for my larger 120 or 150 gal tank that will come after this 50 gallon.

This leaves me with 2 choices then: The Iwaki MD 30 RLT and the GRI #510. I could be swayed either way at this point. Right now my thought is go with the GRI #510 as it's a little more energy efficient, and it has slightly more flow @ 6' head than the Iwaki, and the manufacturer says that the pump can be run dry for 8 hrs w/ no damage (not that I would ever WANT to do this, but it makes the pump in my mind a little more "robust" than the Iwaki's).

If anyone would like to comment further on the remaining 2 pumps, I'd appreciate it.

liquid

[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: LiquidShaneo ]

 

[mgk65]

Liquid:

If the choice is between the 30 and the GRI, I would go with the WMD-30RLXT. You do not need the RLT as you do not have a back pressure application. Head pressure is not considered back pressure.

The 30RLXT has 960 gph at 4' head, I believe.

mgk

 

[liquid]

Almost 1000 gph for a 50 gal tank? Don't you think that's a *little* overkill?

The Iwaki I was referencing was a pressure pump rated at 510 gph @ 4' head vs. the GRI #510 rated at 570 gph @ 6' head. I would seriously think that going w/ the 960 gph Iwaki would be overkill and it'd sound like a waterfall in my den!

liquid

 

[Iron]

Not really it depends on your plumbing. If you use spraybars seaswirl feed a refugium feed a reactor its not to much. I use a Iwaki30 960 on my spray bar on the bottom of my tank (close loop)and a 1200gph to my 1" seaswirl in my 120g. That would almost be the same amount of turn over. Doesn't sound like a waterfall

 

[GobyMan]

Liquidshaneo,

Iron has a point with regards to pressure rated pumps.I started out with a 58g reef and a LG 3mdq-sc high pressure and it made a big difference when i added a spray bar and a DIY'er reef rotor.Whats nice about using pressure rated pumps is you can always back them off(not all pumps),but have the option down the road to add more current through different return options. When I moved up to a 180g, I upgraded to a LG 4mdq-sc and a 4mdx-sc. The 4mdq was split three ways (1-skimmer,1-UV sterilizer,1-sump/refugium) and that also included approx. 3ft of plumbing. It did the job pretty good. Currently I'm running 2 Iwaki 70md's(after getting a sweet deal $100 each from a LFS that went out of bussiness here

) on the 180g and have plenty of current to spare,but its nice to know I have that spare power incase i decide to get in the DIY'er mood down the road.Soory for the long reply,but always keep in mind that you can never have enough power and if you do,throttle it back anbd save it for down the road.HTH

GobyMan

 

[liquid]

LOL, now you guys have me looking at the 960 gph Iwaki and the GRI #510. I'm so easily swayed...

While I'm thinking aboot it, if I do go with the larger pumps, I wouldn't have to have powerheads in the display....that has some definite advantages...

Thanks!

Any other opinions?

liquid

 

[PAGS]

liquid,
I'm running a Mak 4 in the basement sump room. It's not as loud as some people think. It is pumping through 10 feet of head and the output is dialed back 20-25 percent. It's been running 24/7 for 9 months, two 15 miin shutoffs during that time to clean the rear fan. Case temperature is steady at 92.5 degrees.