Creating a mated pair of Marron clowns

[Ryan22]

Wednesday I had the day off so I decided to go out to Petco and buy some stuff for the dog. While I was there, I took a walk through the fish section, and they had a whole tank full of little tank raised marron clowns. They ranged in size from about 3/4 of an inch to about an inch and 1/4. I know what your thinking, Petco?????? But the petco here has a pretty well kept fish section, and their fish look healthier than most of the fish in the LFS's around the immediate area. I've been casually reading up on what people have done to create a mated pair of Marrons for about a year now, whenever I have the time. So I ended up leaving Petco with a dog bowl, a small plastic Lee's critter cage and a 3/4 inch marron clown, in hopes that I can mate it with my 2 1/2 inch marron clown that I have. I acclimated the baby marron, and it even ate while it was still in the bag. Sine then it has been living in the critter cage on one side of the tank, and seems to be doing fine. The larger marron so far, has shown no interest at all in the new clown.

So now for the questions:
1) how long should I leave the new addition in the critter cage before I test them together? I've read recomendations from anywhere from a few days toa few weeks.
2) should I put the lager marron in the sump and re-introduce her at the same time or after I release the new clown from the critter cage? I don't really want to rearange the rock work though, I finaly got it a way that I like it.
3) Any other tips or suggestions?

TIA,

 

[GSchiemer]

1)how long should I leave the new addition in the critter cage before I test them together? I've read recomendations from anywhere from a few days toa few weeks.
2) should I put the lager marron in the sump and re-introduce her at the same time or after I release the new clown from the critter cage? I don't really want to rearange the rock work though, I finaly got it a way that I like it.
3) Any other tips or suggestions?

These are tough questions to answer because IME maroon clowns can be somewhat unpredictable when it comes to mates. I have a 4 inch maroon clown and I've tried to pair it with a male on three occasions over the past 8 years. All were met with failure.

Given your circumstance, I would leave the new fish in the critter cage for at least one week. After you release it, stand by the aquarium and watch carefully. There may be some initial aggression as the existing female asserts her dominace, but this should pass after an hour or so. If it doesn't, be prepared to remove the male quickly or he'll be killed.

Good luck and keep us posted. Perhaps I'll try again myself

Greg Schiemer

 

[Anonymous]

I have heard that the new fish introduced to the tank should be equal to or larger size than the one you alrady have in the tank. Otherwise the existing fish is more likely to kill the new, smaller fish. I was thinking about doing the same thing however and would appreciate it if you would give an update after you release the smaller fish.

 

[Texas2Turkey]

A good book to read:

Joyce D. Wilkerson, "Clownfishes"

"A Guide to Their Captive Care, Breeding & Natural History"


I've found it to be helpful...


.

 

[shalegac]

i would try the sump. Like it said earlier, introduce the larger last.

 

[GSchiemer]

I have heard that the new fish introduced to the tank should be equal to or larger size than the one you alrady have in the tank. Otherwise the existing fish is more likely to kill the new, smaller fish. I was thinking about doing the same thing however and would appreciate it if you would give an update after you release the smaller fish.

The absolute worst thing you can do is introduce a similar-sized clownfish into the aquarium. It will be the start of WWIII. The larger clowns are typically territorial females and will battle other females relentlessly. Tiny clowns are males and will often be accepted by existing females.

Greg Schiemer

 

[Ryan22]

The absolute worst thing you can do is introduce a similar-sized clownfish into the aquarium. It will be the start of WWIII. The larger clowns are typically territorial females and will battle other females relentlessly. Tiny clowns are males and will often be accepted by existing females.

Greg Schiemer

That is consistant with what I had read, and why I chose a very small clown, I felt that I would have a better chance at getting a male. I assumed that my large clown is a female, she has been the only clown in the tank for about two years now. Hopefully the new male will submit right away. I'm interested to see how it goes. I think I'll wait until next Wed. night to release the new clown, I have the house entirely to myself that night. That way nothing will distract me from keeping an eye on them.

Thanks again for your thoughts,

 

[EmilyB]

The critter keeper is a very good idea !

When I initially got a small male, I tried them together too soon...the female went ballistic immediately, and tried to kill him. I used a tank divider, and once they started checking each other out and staying closer, I would let them out for a conjugal visit under close supervision.... :lol: It didn't take long and they were inseparable.

 

[Ryan22]

Well folks, toninght is the night. Hopefully everything will go smoothly. I figured I might as well bump this back up to the top and see if I could get any last minute suggestions from you all.

 

[jcm1229]

I have a maroon in a 20g Nano. He's the only fish and has been in there for about 6 weeks. He's been shy and stayed pretty much on 1 side of the tank where I had my torch coral. I recently pulled some rock to rid it of caulerpa that was getting out of hand. After rearranging the rock, my torch and some pulsating Xenia are in the center of the tank. The Maroon just hangs out there most of the time.

Yesterday, I was replacing some frags that the snails knocked over and the maroon kept swimming/bumping into my hand and the frag - he didn't want me in there. Is this normal behavior?? He's not minded my hand in the tank until now.

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

The absolute worst thing you can do is introduce a similar-sized clownfish into the aquarium. It will be the start of WWIII. The larger clowns are typically territorial females and will battle other females relentlessly. Tiny clowns are males and will often be accepted by existing females.

I disagree. This is based on the assumption that all males are small and all females are large. Clowns will sometimes change sexes. I introduced a false Perc to a tank that had a similarly sized fish already established for a year. Within months the newly introduced fish started growing and the other got a little smaller. The have now been a mated pair for 2 years.

 

[King Jason]

I was able to pair my maroon clown successfully in my 60g tank. I basically did what you have done:

1. Buy a VERY small maroon clown (considerably smaller then the one you have).
2. Get a critter cage (I used a large plastic cup with a lid and with lots of holes drilled in it.).
3. Put a rock on top of the critter cage and put it on the sand bed (keeps it from floating around). Start with the cage as far away from the larger maroon's hang out area.
4. Each day move it closer to the female’s territory. Watch the female and how she reacts. If she goes nuts leave the critter cage there longer until you see the female start to ignore the smaller clown. (making sure food gets into the cage during feeding also).
5. I waited about a week to release the smaller clown. When I did it was WWIII. The female chassed the male all over the tank. She did this for at least an hour. I could tell the male was out of energy. Luckily he was on the top of the water column and I was able to scoop him up with the critter cage again.
6. I repeated steps 3 and 4 for 3 or 4 more days. (making sure food gets into the cage)
7. Then I released the clown again. This time the female chassed him around for about an hour again. The chasseing subsided and the both coexisted for a while before actually pairing and hanging out all the time.

I’d also make sure there are lots of hiding spots the small clown can get to that the larger female can’t get to. This gives him a place to escape when being chassed around.

Unfortunately I lost the male in a heat wave. I've been scared to try it again.

 

[GSchiemer]

The absolute worst thing you can do is introduce a similar-sized clownfish into the aquarium. It will be the start of WWIII. The larger clowns are typically territorial females and will battle other females relentlessly. Tiny clowns are males and will often be accepted by existing females.

I disagree. This is based on the assumption that all males are small and all females are large. Clowns will sometimes change sexes. I introduced a false Perc to a tank that had a similarly sized fish already established for a year. Within months the newly introduced fish started growing and the other got a little smaller. The have now been a mated pair for 2 years.

This general rule doesn't apply to A. ocellaris and A. percula, where the difference in size between males and females isn't as dramatic as it is with some of the larger species of clownfish, such as Premnas biaculeatus, Amphiprion frenatus, A. chrysopterus, A. polymnus, A. melanopus, etc. A. ocellaris and A. percula are generally less aggressive as well.

Large adult Maroon Clowns (Premnas biaculeatus) are all FEMALES and I can assure you that they will fight relentlessly unless separated by 10 feet or so of aquarium space. One will NOT shrink and turn into a small male. They'll fight to the death first.

Greg Schiemer

 

[Expos Forever]

Yesterday, I was replacing some frags that the snails knocked over and the maroon kept swimming/bumping into my hand and the frag - he didn't want me in there. Is this normal behavior?? He's not minded my hand in the tank until now.

Yep, very normal. From what I hear especially with maroons. My large ocellaris attacks so hard sometimes it stings. (Especially if I get close to his hosting toadstoll leather). If all your params are good and your fish looks healthy, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Ryan22]

Well folks, I'm not sure if it's going well or not. the female went directly for the little male as soon as he came out of the critter cage. The inital attack was short lived and they seperated for a while. Since then the female periodically goes after the male, but my chalk bass, seems to have joined in the chase. The bass seems to follow the lead of the female. Twice the female has caught the male by the tail and dragged him down into the rocks. Both times I've stuck the net in and that was enough to break them up. Right now the the male is hiding somewhere in the rocks. I'll post more updates as I can. I'm heading back to the tank now.

 

[dgasmd]

Very interesting. I hope you continue to post your progress. I bought a pair of marrons from a local guy that seems to be able to breed them quite easily. He gets tons of them from every hatching and sells them even t stores aorund the area. I got a larger one maybe 1 1/2 inch and a smaller 0.75 inch one. They were in a 40g tank with another 30+ maroons and the breeder tells me they all got alone. He also tells me as time goes by and they get bigger, they start to kill each other. I acclimated both to my tank (360 gal) and let them loose. They hung around in a particular spot for days, but the larger would peck at the smaller from time to time and harrass it a bit too. Within a few days fo being introduced, the smaller went through the overflow, but since I never saw it I thought it died in the rocks. About a month later, I was doing some maintenance in the sump and turned off all the pumps just to find the little bugger swiming about. I was so amazed it was still alive since this is a 100 gal sump filled about half, but has rocks, a mag 24 going o the UV filter, a MJ1200 for the Ca reactor, an Iwaki 30 and an Iwaki 40 for returns, and an Iwaki 100 for the skimmer all drawing from it and it never sucked it in and killed him. Impresive I said. I reallyw as having a hard time trying to get hiim out, so I decided to leave him tere for the time being. I'll try getting him out in about 1-2 weeks and re-introducing him (I presume) to the tank and the other maroon. I do hope they get alone.

 

[wombat1]

It's always helpful to know the origin of the supposed "male" as well. A very tiny maroon that's been kept by itself in a tank for a year is probably a female, regardless of its size. I had success pairing a small juvenile with a large female using the techniques described above. The critter keeper accidentally opened after about a week and the pair fought for a while, but eventually got along.

GScheimer wrote:

Large adult Maroon Clowns (Premnas biaculeatus) are all FEMALES

Can you describe what you mean by large? I've seen a pair of maroons that are very similar in size (around 4-5"), where it's fairly difficult to distinguish between the sexes on size alone.

 

[EmilyB]

I should have mentioned, I removed the female from her territory to another tank, where they were tank divided.

This could have played a big part.

 

[GSchiemer]

Can you describe what you mean by large? I've seen a pair of maroons that are very similar in size (around 4-5"), where it's fairly difficult to distinguish between the sexes on size alone.

4-5 inch maroons are large adults and typically females. I've never seen a pairing of two large maroons. There is usually a dramatic difference in size between males and females in this species. Females can range from 1/3 up to 5 times larger than males!

Greg

 

[Ryan22]

Here the update. After the little guy disappeared into the rocks, I didn't see him for a while, and I'm in the middle of remodeling the bathroom, so I went upstairs to work on that. I came down and checked on them periodically, but not much was happening. The small male was hiding up in the top corner of the tank anf the female was back to her regular activities. If the male ventured out of the corner, the female went right for him, especially when he went near the rock work in the center of the tank. He was loose in the tank for about 4 hours, but around 10:00 I put him back in the critter cage and I put cage in the center of the tank, where most of the agression took place. I think I'll leave things the way they are for a few days, and then I'm going to catch the female and put her in the sump for a few days. While she is out of the tank, I'll let the male loose in the tank. I'll reintroduce the female, probably next wednesday. The little male showed no signes of aggression to the female, he tried to swim over to the female a few times, but she chased him away, once she started chasing, all the male did was run for his life. He never tried to fight at all.

A little background on the little male. He came from a tank full of small tank raised clowns. There were probably 15 clowns in the tank together, I picked the smallest one of the bunch, figuring that would be my best shot at getting a male. That is about all I know about the history of this little guy.