I just read another persons post re. denitrification in their DSB. I obviously worded my question poorly last week re. the success of my DSB. The arogonite live sand is approx 4"-5" with a gentle flow over the sand. What I should have aked was whether I should see bubbles to ascertain whether it is working correctly, is this the proving factor? I had always imagined that the escaping gas wasn't detectable!
Bubbles in DSB-that's it, is it?
- Thread starter Tony Quinn
- Start date
perimeter of my DSB, I can see the whole top surface of the sump?, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My NO3 is still in excess of 20ppm (test kits seem to vary amazingly) yet I have no fish only inverts, and by inverts I mean corals, hard and soft, turbo snails, red legs and 1 boxer shrimp. Other than pods and other micro fauna there is no other livestock in the tank. You can now see my concerns! When it was said that bubbles were produced I thought one would see the bubbles on the surface of the sump!
Hey guys I'm going home tonight to study this! I was just concerned that my mild flow of water was merely skimming over the DSB however, the sand is clean no black patches therefore I guess it rate of flow can't be too bad. I'll check for them bubbles!
I wouldn't disturb you dsb by "stirring it with a stick". By disturbing the dsb, you will prolong the time it takes to "culture". Check Dr. Ron Shimek web site, he's one of the hobby's leadind dsb experts (it falls into his real life work).
http://rshimek.com/reef/Default.htm
Did you seed your dsb with live sand?
Is the live sand pre-bagged/bottled or "real ocean live sand"?
Do you feed the tank? Being there is no fish, you probably don't feed. With out feeding, the critters don't have fuel to continue the cycling of your dsb.
What temp do you run your tank at? R. Shimek recommends 81 degrees. He state at that temp, the bacteria pop. grows best. I ran my tank at 75 degrees for a long time, with out seeing dsb bubbles. When I raised my temp, I found dsb bubbles.
Have you seen any signs of cyno in the dsb yet? You want some cyno in the dsb, don't get scared if you see it.
What grain size are you using in your dsb?
http://rshimek.com/reef/Default.htm
Did you seed your dsb with live sand?
Is the live sand pre-bagged/bottled or "real ocean live sand"?
Do you feed the tank? Being there is no fish, you probably don't feed. With out feeding, the critters don't have fuel to continue the cycling of your dsb.
What temp do you run your tank at? R. Shimek recommends 81 degrees. He state at that temp, the bacteria pop. grows best. I ran my tank at 75 degrees for a long time, with out seeing dsb bubbles. When I raised my temp, I found dsb bubbles.
Have you seen any signs of cyno in the dsb yet? You want some cyno in the dsb, don't get scared if you see it.
What grain size are you using in your dsb?
Thanks for that ! I'll answer the questions one by one. I do feed the tank as there is a reef lobster in the refugium/sump and a boxer shrimp in the show tank. I also feed chopped shrimp to the bubble coral and phyto & marine snow to the other corals, especially the non photosynthesizing corals. The tank temp is 79.5 degrees and is stable as a chiller is attached to the system. I have a few patches of cyno and plenty of critters, worms, brittlestars etc. The sand was all live sand but bagged, not direct from the ocean.
Last night I saw some bubbles on the surface around the edge of the refuge/sump mainly above the area where the inlet pipe pumps water over the sand. There were not too many bubbles though, is this normal? i.e. the water shouldn't be fizing should it?
Last night I saw some bubbles on the surface around the edge of the refuge/sump mainly above the area where the inlet pipe pumps water over the sand. There were not too many bubbles though, is this normal? i.e. the water shouldn't be fizing should it?
No, not fizzing. You should get noticable bubbles in the sand, they shouldn't collect on top of sand, that sands more like air bubbles from return. The only time they'll be above the dsb, is to rise to the surface. Read those articles I gave you a link to, they'll answer ALL questions. I increased my temp to 81, like Shimek states, and got a much better dsb response. The cyno should be below surface, not on top. It'll only benifit dsb if its in it. Remove any above dsb cyno. I'd get some critters and some real live, try garf.org, inland aquatics(inlandaqu.com?) or ipsf.com. The worms really help sand beds.
How long has it been cycling?
How long has it been cycling?
Louey":2d97bksq said:
I just set up a new tank with DSB and noticed a ton of trapped bubbles within the first few weeks. I have mixed opinions about what this really is. I know that the light coming through the glass is enough for algae to live on the glass below the sand level. So this might produce oxygen bubbles. Another explanation might be trapped air seeping up from the lower levels or from the plenum. And it might very well be nitrogen from the newly seeded bactaria. I am not sure and it would be hard to find out exactly what the cause is. The bottom line is that if your amonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are low, your bed is working fine!
ReefLion":3sumo4yw said:
Reeflion hit it on the head; i doubt that the bubbles that can be seen in between the glass and dsb are in fact nitrogen bubbles. For that to be true, wouldn't there have to be visible hydrogen sulfide around the area where the bubble are? After all, that is a byproduct of denitrification, so if you cant see some nice brownish/black smudges,then what you're seeing aren't nitrogen bubbles.
I second the notion with a few things mentioned above. My 3" DSB in my 120 has no gas bubbles but my brand new nano tank with 2" SB taken from the 12O has alot of gas bubbles. So,, this goes along with the age factor. In addition the nano is running 2 degrees warmer than the 120.
You're right, O2 is by-product, not, no2. My mistake.
One of many dsb's I've come in contact with :
2 1/2 years old, 3 - 5 inch dsb, mainly oolitic mixed with caribsea #0050
Below sand bed, filled with bubble pockets and algal growth (cyno & coraline). WAY more than @ set-up to 1 year. He's always maintained a temp of 80 to 82 (lights & highly insulated new house keep it @ that temp), never has detectable nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, but, since removal of refugium, phosphates have crept up. This dsb is working!!!
I set up a tank for a friend. He was very disturbed by bubbles in his dsb too. He had switched over from fresh water because of HUGE growths of cyno. Of course, he'd tried a plant tank, failled, switched over to ciclids, leaving substrate for plants still in place. The rotten roots and oxygen poor substrate led to diseaster. Needless to say, he was very concerned this was going to happen to his new reef tank. As the tank had only been up for a couple days, with zero life, I stirred the dsb for him, releasing all trapped air. As bio-load increased, feeding increased, his dsb matured, making more bubbles. Cyno was present on glass in dsb, again, both factors concerned him. He called me again. This time I did tons of dsb research on the web. The most info I could find was written by Shimek. All the info I needed was on his site. Since then, I've heard him speak at several differrent functions. This guy knows his sand. go to
http://rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm
scroll down to to 1st set of pictures (showing aging dsb)
The two dsb stories are the same person, same tank.
One of many dsb's I've come in contact with :
2 1/2 years old, 3 - 5 inch dsb, mainly oolitic mixed with caribsea #0050
Below sand bed, filled with bubble pockets and algal growth (cyno & coraline). WAY more than @ set-up to 1 year. He's always maintained a temp of 80 to 82 (lights & highly insulated new house keep it @ that temp), never has detectable nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, but, since removal of refugium, phosphates have crept up. This dsb is working!!!
I set up a tank for a friend. He was very disturbed by bubbles in his dsb too. He had switched over from fresh water because of HUGE growths of cyno. Of course, he'd tried a plant tank, failled, switched over to ciclids, leaving substrate for plants still in place. The rotten roots and oxygen poor substrate led to diseaster. Needless to say, he was very concerned this was going to happen to his new reef tank. As the tank had only been up for a couple days, with zero life, I stirred the dsb for him, releasing all trapped air. As bio-load increased, feeding increased, his dsb matured, making more bubbles. Cyno was present on glass in dsb, again, both factors concerned him. He called me again. This time I did tons of dsb research on the web. The most info I could find was written by Shimek. All the info I needed was on his site. Since then, I've heard him speak at several differrent functions. This guy knows his sand. go to
http://rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm
scroll down to to 1st set of pictures (showing aging dsb)
The two dsb stories are the same person, same tank.
This input is great thanks to all of you. To answer points raised since yesterday. Firstly, my DSB has been set up since February this year i.e. 9 months. The cyno is below the sand level and is interspersed with coraline algae. I think that the bubbles have in fact been caused by the inflow pipe as suggested. The life in the DSB is rife with pods, nauplii, many species of worm. One thing I have noticed is that the sump itself is lower in temp than the tank and this is probably due to areas of water which don't necessarily move through the sump evenly. Could this be the problem?
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