Article on cyanide collection of food fish

[mkirda]

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/119/s ... ing+.shtml

I spoke to Dante at length while in Coron, mostly about MO fishing though.

What I found interesting was what stories were actually left out of the article.
Coron is a fascinating place- One which is actively being pillaged. It would have made for a fascinating article showing how the groups behind each interest are fighting with each other.

And the private planes they spoke of: Very true... They fly in with a package of something, load up boxes of fish, and depart. Takes maybe 15-20 minutes tops.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. Thanks to Purvis Raeford on the Reefkeepers list for the heads-up.

 

[JennM]

Interesting article - makes me wonder if a similar story could be written about ornamentals?

Jenn

 

[My Hairy Ass]

Yes, another 'interesting' article about the food fish trade, but totally inaccurate and scandalous in several key places.

Factual reporting is, amongst other things, what is needed in our bid to help the people of the Indo-Pacific save their coral reefs, not scaremongering. But then again, facts don't sell as many papers.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Yes, another 'interesting' article about the food fish trade, but totally inaccurate and scandalous in several key places.

Factual reporting is, amongst other things, what is needed in our bid to help the people of the Indo-Pacific save their coral reefs, not scaremongering. But then again, facts don't sell as many papers.

What is it that you think is incorrect about the artical?
_________________
BMW R27

 

[John_Brandt]

Mike,

Thank you for contributing this article. I'm going to post a copy of the link in the General Reefkeeping forum for a wider readership.

Peter, do you know of the test that is mentioned to be in development by Reinhard Renneberg?

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[mkirda]

I e-mailed Dante last night and got a response back this morning.

He indicated that the situation there has changed drastically for the better-
at least temporarily...

Apparently with the SARS epidemic in Hong Kong and China (where much of the live food fish end up), the trade has mostly dried up. Live fish traders cannot sell their product, so they are not buying either.

Live food fish collectors are doing other things now- In Dante's words, SARS is giving the reefs around Coron a much needed respite.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[dizzy]

Good old Mother Nature. I knew she would find a way to slow down the top predator.

 

[Frazer]

My Hairy Ass has pointed out that the Boston Globe article http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/119/s ... ing+.shtml contains some inaccuracies, and I do agree, but as MHA has not replied yet, I feel I shall reply to address the balance and answer the questions asked.

Hong Kong gourmands alone eat 20,000 tons of live fish caught on the coral reefs of Southeast Asia each year

Hong Kong is the largest importer of Live Reef Food Fish in the world, much of which is trans-shipped into PRC. The total amount of food fish imported last year is 20,000 tonnes at its upper limit, and a substantial amount of this comes from aquaculture. There is a discrepancy here as it is unknown just what percentage of this aquaculture is wild caught juvenile cage growout as opposed to full-cycle.

will pay up to $200 to pick a live coral trout or grouper from a tank

This is a hugley inflated cost. A $200 coral trout would have to be upwards of 4kg, which is just too big for the market demand.

The Philippine fisherman might get $20 of this, five to 10 times the price he'd get for a dead fish

This is true to a certain extent, but fails to detail the costs that are involved in buying the fish, transporting it to Manila in private aircraft, transshipping it to a cargo plane and getting it to HK. Also factor in the cost of shipping the water to Hong Kong, and 10% to the fisherman is a pretty good price.

WWF, the world's top environmental organization that was originally called the World Wildlife Fund, is opposing calls to ban this destructive trade in live reef fish. It says there is nothing wrong with the trade itself, nor with catching fish the conventional way, using a hook and line. It is the use of cyanide that is destructive, and the only way to stop its use is to keep the trade legal, but crack down on cyanide

For once I agree with WWF, it is not the trade itself that is destructive, but the method of capture. However, there is the issue that even if the fishermen use hook and line, taking too many fish off the reef and the targeting of spawning aggregations lead to the depletion of the stock on the reef.

In Coron, a port amid the islands of the western Philippines where small-time fish traders sell to international conglomerates with offices in Hong Kong

Don't kid yourselves that the traders in Coron are small-time! They are the ones that are making the $, it is the middlemen that make the $ in this trade, not the 'big-time' Hong Kong merchants.

''Banning could drive the whole business underground. The fish would be collected from the fishermen at sea by smugglers, and taken to Hong Kong in fast boats.

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to send me a photo of the 'fast boat' that would bring the fish to Hong Kong over 600km of the South China Sea, which can be notoriously rough a great deal of the year? The fastest way to HK is by air, which is the way the vast majority of Philippine fish arrive here.

Don't the restaurant owners and their customers in Hong Kong and elsewhere have an interest in maintaining the reef-fish business for the longer term?

Environmental awareness is low in HK, and even lower in China. Many importers (the restaurant association is slowly getting involved) are working, in collaboration with NGOs, to develop an international standard for the trade in live reef food fish, a voluntary code of conduct for the industry.

Traders interviewed in Hong Kong didn't seem too concerned by......(Most reef fish never get to reproduce before being squirted in the face by cyanide and getting air-freighted to Hong Kong.)

Unfortunately this is a rarity. What industry wants to see good business relations destroyed, and a reliable source of business dry up? This just doesn't make good business sense, and after all, the Chinese are known for their business savvy.

Would customers object if they knew their hugely expensive fish had been caught using cyanide? Nobody, it seems, has ever asked them.

WWF carried out an attitude survey in 2000 regarding consumer preference when it came to live reef food fish.

Reinhard Renneberg of the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology is developing a test for the telltale breakdown products left in the fish by cyanide. Unlike tests for cyanide itself, this could work many days after the fish had been caught - on the Hong Kong dockside or even in its restaurants.

I have seen this laboratory test first hand and it requires a small amount of fish blood to test. How likely is it that a restaurant is going to let a customer try to take blood from a fish before they decide that they want to order that one? Would any of you LFS keepers allow this practice from a customer? I wouldn't think so. Renneberg also was developing a hand-held 'dip-stick' test that could have been ideal if it could have been accredited and used in the field. A regionally based NGO offered to field test the prototype, but he refused.


So these are my comments on the article. I would welcome an open and frank discussion if anyone feels what I have said is inaccurate.

Regards

Frazer McGilvray
Hong Kong

 

[PeterIMA]

Frazer, You forgot to mention that you are the Executive Director for IMA in Hong Kong. Frazer has worked closely with the Hong Kong Live Food Fish Importers Association (correct me if this is not their correct title). The IMA has compiled a database concerning the volumes of live food fish imported to Hong Kong and mainland China, their countries of origin, and the pricing structure for the species being traded.

Can you clarify what form of cyanide was being tested for with the test being developed by Reinhard Rennerberg? Groupers could be tested for thiocyanate by taking blood with a syringe from the caudal artery. If they were caught using cyanide, we need to know this. Also, I would like to know more about the other method you mentioned with the "dip stick"

Peter Rubec
Research Scientist
also with IMA

 

[John_Brandt]

Frazer,

Welcome to reefs.org and the Industry Forum.

Your comments and perspective are appreciated here. Most of the people who post here are from North America, and it is always good to hear from those in Asia.

Would you be willing to introduce yourself?

Best wishes and welcome again,

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[clarionreef]

Wow!
Nice to see the live cyanide food fish trade given play here. It was so hush-hush for so long and now because smaller fish are air frieghted via Manila airport, there is a need for cleansing, CDT's and "proper" procedures I guess.Whats next? Certification?
The Hong Kong live food fish trade is as filthy, corrupt and damaging to the Philippines as can be imagined. Although lately they have sought to legitamize their image, its too bad they don't just stop the destruction of the West Palawan coral reef area known as Freedom Shoals and the smuggling of illegally caught, smuggled and undocumented tonnage of fish directly to Hong Kong.
Of course an industry of foreign NGOs will see an opportunity to deodorize these bastards and give them the legitamacy they need to keep killing the reefs, I mean keep doing business at the expense of the Philippines. They are wholesale killers of reef ecosystems like the aquarium trade cannot even imagine yet they have prospered for 35 years or so during the Marcos, Aquino, Ramos and Estrada administrations.
The Hong Kong restaurant assoc. entire board needs to be in a Philippine jail for their crimes...not given credit for having a change of public relations strategy.
If you rob banks for 35 years and when caught , offer to "change", you are still liable for what you did for those 35 years. The sabatoged productivity of reef helped to impoverish innocent Filipinos and diminish their incomes and catch totals. At the very least these blood suckers should have to pay for 10 million dollars in reef restoration.
In 1986 I wrote a report for the new Aquino government exposing this secret business in tons of live fish out the back door to H.K . Tons of cyanide carried in drums were emptied into Philippine reefs killing the very best areas in the country! Boats were seized, cyanide drums also, photos taken etc. etc. It is sickening to regard that they are about to get away with it and whitewash their history with some clever moves today.
Why the hell is the IMA offering them deodorant? Just because they have money doesn't mean they should be given quarter and "saved". If they don't need punishing, ostracism, derision and jail for their generations of criminal activity, then no one ever did.

Steve Robinson
Technical Advisor, Presidential task force on illegal fishing...1996, Dept. of Agriculture and Food, ,Manila, Philippines

 

[mkirda]

Wow!

Don't hold back, Steve.

Tell us what you really think. {grin}

What kills me is how they capture the smuggler's boats, put the people in jail, then let them out without serving their full sentences, and before they have paid their fines. At least they keep the boats... The penalties are not nearly enough to act as a 'stick'...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
But we must hold back to avoid offending these gentleman. Afterall, they are very well capitalized and..... they...I mean they could pay for...maybe I could get a job with... perhaps they could fund.........etc. etc.
They're not aquarium dealers are they? Geez, I hope they don't cross pollinate. We aim to fix the aquarium problem for and with Filipinos, but this thing. These guys are just pirates and raiders, smugglers and thieves. Creators of poverty and promoters of corruption and things unholy...[ Thier assoc. pres. has a tattoo with the mark of the beast on his shoulder]
After them, what next? A grant and do a project with dealers of heroin to school children, or child molesters?.
NGO people. Please. Have some shame and respect for the dead. ..reefs that is. Is nothing beyond resolution and absolution for a fee?
Lets fix the aquarium trade... or see it shut it down. These bastards..however....they should already be shut down. They were not and are not a legitimate fishery. The Philippines will never know how much damage was done by them and how much they lost to them.
The old Puerto Princessa BFAR fishery office was a chamber of commerce for them...the office was called..."Bureau of selling out my country for a peso extension office."
Bigger crimes of course got all the press, but the crime of general, prevalent eco sabatoge was barely noticed or understood by the countries fishery guardians. They were too busy assisting in the looting. Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

Well ! seems like that Kalkbreath guy might have been on to something last year when he brought out the fact that the seafood industry is fifty times greater in the Philippines the our little hobby........if you were on a seafood advisory board Steve.......why did you down play my contention that the food fish industry fishermen are the real reef killers?
_________________
Lamborghini Gallardo

 

[My Hairy Ass]

Well Steve, seems you know everything about everything and are ALWAYS right, despite sitting in the US talking a good game about all those 'foreigners' working overseas. I assume with a name like 'Steve Robinson' you are of Anglo-saxon and not Asian descent? Weren't you once a foreigner working overseas? Thought so.

So according to Kalk, it's the food fishermen that are to blame, and Steve blames the people of dubious parentage who buy the food fish in Hong Kong. Maybe someone else has other ideas.

Glad to see Ferdie and Frazer on here giving some Asian insight (was going to say slant, but thought I'd get accused of all sorts of racism if I did despite it being the best word to use here) on the situation, so we don't have to rely on the 'I hate everyone except myself' brigade for their so-called (and often self-proclaimed) expertise (read opinion) on everything. You know who you all are. Any of you actually know anyone from Hong Kong (apart from your new aquaintance Frazer), or any food fish traders in the field?

Didn't think so.

MHA

 

[clarionreef]

Com'on Harry,
Stop throwing pebbles from behind the barn and tell us what you really do for a living.
And don't even suggest playing a race card on this. As the victims of reef destruction are virtually all Asian, it makes you look like a mouthpiece for the "business community".
Officers of the food fish cyanide cartel [ and their mouthpieces ]are bastards regardless of color.
Steve
PS Not a know it all ...but apparentely too close to home

 

[mkirda]

Any of you actually know anyone from Hong Kong?

Didn't think so.

MHA

MHA,

Actually, yes, I know more than a handful of Chinese folks living/working in HK.
The only thing I can think of that they/their comments could add to this discussion is the comment of the mother of one of my friends: She prefers ocean-caught fish over aqua-cultured ones because she says there is a taste difference. She said that aquacultured fish flesh is spongy and tastes like mud. The others in the room did not seem inclined to disagree with her.

I would also add that the fish market in Aberdeen Harbor was not pretty. There were signs posted up everywhere that the harbor was polluted, you shouldn't swim or eat fish caught there. Nearly every sign was plastered over with stickers, so that the warnings were not visible. And the fish were all being kept in water pumped straight out of the harbor...

I'll also add that on the same trip I went to Bali to the Coral Reef Congress meeting. Chinese live food fish traders were held to be responsible for a great deal of damage to the reefs across SE Asia by the field workers there.

I do not claim to know everything about the Live food fish trade in HK, but what I have learned makes my head hurt.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

So according to Kalk, it's the food fishermen that are to blame

Wait, I thought it was 'eel rubbings'...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Kalk,
You were right about food fish depletion, destruction and overwhelming impact. I did allude to that a number of times and abstained from a lot of dialogue against it.
However, the issue was not wether or not the Asain food fish trade creates Asian victims and poverty, it was what effect does our part in Asian fisheries have. Inasmuch as we pay for cyanide fish and constitute the demand, we are promoting destruction on top of destruction that was already enough. Our subsidy and participation in this both implicates us and also gives us a say in it.
The Hong Kong food fish cartel has killed vast fields of reef that could've produced aquarium fish. That is relevant as well. As a dedicated enemy of theirs since 86', I must say that I hurt them plenty and if given the chance, would do it again. In return they have also threatened to hurt me [ ie murder ] and so, some bad karma remains.
Seeing absolution of these criminals offered by NGOs just rekindled memories.
Using these other obvious assaults on reef productivity as a way to absolve the aquarium trade for its selective coral killing methodolgy is not responsible.l. Even if we are not the biggest threat...we still do serious damage. Perhaps cumalitively, very serious and more than is known.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

and futhermore Harry,
On my two fact finding trips to Hong Kong, all my dealings were with nervous local Chinese patriots who never failed to tell me what kind of animals we were dealing with and how far they would go to stop us if they could. The resultant study I submited to the Philippine govt. back in 86' blew the lid off of things and from then on the cartel has suffered a P.R. problem.
To my friends and handlers in Hong Kong...thank you. Qbviously I couldn't have done it without you guys. To this day they still live there and their names remain a secret.
Steve