Carbon "Reactor"?

[ChrisRD]

I was thinking about making a single pass chamber that I could put a few pounds of carbon in - something I could change out every few months maybe. I was thinking of putting it in-line with my Ca reactor so it gets a nice slow flow through it. I was also thinking this would be a good spot for some type of phosphate resin.

Anyone else do anything like this yet? I'm wondering how much more effective this would be than just throwing a bag of carbon or Phosban in the sump.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/comments...

 

[Anonymous]

It is just a filter, not a reactor.

I don't see anything wrong with it. However, keep in mind that the average contact time thru out the tank water will be the same, although the contact time for the water that passes thru the filter will be longer, since the volumn is much smaller.

So I don't think it will give you any better or more efficient use of your filter media.

 

[ChrisRD]

You're right, it's not really a reactor - just a single pass chamber, but I thought it sounded cool...

So basically increasing the contact time (sorta the whole idea behind this) won't have any effect on how efficiently the carbon can remove wastes from the water?

 

[Anonymous]

> So basically increasing the contact time won't have any effect on how efficiently the carbon can remove wastes from the water?

Of course it does, but you are dumping the output right back into the tank, so the net effect is the same.

 

[ChrisRD]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think I phrased my question well.

I'm wondering if increasing the contact time can result in better NET waste removal from the tank.

 

[dwall174]

Here's a link to a chemical reactor http://www.petsolutions.com/cgi-bin/cgiitmls?m=ThisP&p=1027.500000&l=1

 

[ChrisRD]

Thanks for the link Doug. Have you ever tried one of these things?

 

[Anonymous]

I have a cylinder that I put a bag of Chempure in. The cylinder sits in the sump and I teed off the main and I put a ball valve in line with it so I can control the flow through it. It works much better than just laying a bag in the sumps because most water flows around the bag if it is just laying in the sump.

I bought my cylinder from Lifereef

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

You could make a real cheap one out of PVC pipe, fittings and a powerhead.

 

[ChrisRD]

It works much better than just laying a bag in the sumps because most water flows around the bag if it is just laying in the sump.

This was exactly my thinking and the reason why I was looking into this. Thanks Louey.

You could make a real cheap one out of PVC pipe, fittings and a powerhead.

Yup, that's exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Anonymous]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think I phrased my question well.
I'm wondering if increasing the contact time can result in better NET waste removal from the tank.

I don't want to answer it this way, but here it goes.

Rather or not there is a better net waste removal due to longer contact depends on the chemical kinetics and equilibrium of the reaction. Forget about the equilibrium aspect for now. If the rate law of the kinetics (reaction rate) is anything better than linear (more specifically, the concentration effect only), then it will be bad idea to increase the contact time. This is because there is little (relatively) reaction going on near the end of the flow path, and it will be better use of the resource by increase the cross section area by two, and cut the flow path length by half.

But then, some of you will point out that if this is the case, then why is there an internal circulation pump in some reactor, such as calcium reactor? Well, this is because we have to consider the overall resource. If CO2 is free and unlimited, then it will be better to just use a single pass, short contact time, fast flow design. But in order to utilitize the CO2 more efficiently, the decision is to recirculate (effectively a multiplier for the contact time) the water over and over thru the reactor.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the above post. What I should have said is "forget about the kinetic aspect for now..." and go on from there from the equilibrium side instead. I feel I can be a good snake oil saleman with the technospeak that I have. :wink:

Anyway, I want to recant the above post and say this instead. For a specific amount of filter medium, it has its maximum capacity. So to answer your question of:

I'm wondering if increasing the contact time can result in better NET waste removal from the tank.

The answer is "no, it can't."

 

[Ben1]

Louey wrote:
It works much better than just laying a bag in the sumps because most water flows around the bag if it is just laying in the sump.


This was exactly my thinking and the reason why I was looking into this. Thanks Louey

That point alone makes it worth the effort. Wether the slow reaction time helps or not at least you are getting flow through and not just flow around like if you just threw a bag in the sump.

 

[dwall174]

Thanks for the link Doug. Have you ever tried one of these things?

No not yet! I do plan to get one to run "PhosBan" in

 

[Quigonsean]

Yeah, when I get an extra PowerHead I plan on using my brothers old merlin Fluidized Bed Filter. I'll nick the filter from his extra junk box and do the old convertaroooo making it a more usefull product. It'll be used with Phosban or whatever the Aquarium Pharmacuticals one is. Our well water here has an unbelievable amount os Phosphate and Silicate, and using it in a 30gal FW tank I used to have I found it was amazing. After it went beat I tryed other stuff cause it's so expensive locally compared to That Fish Place which is an hour drive. Sea Chem, Kent, and all just didn't hold a candle in the wind to the Aqurium Pharm. stuff which was weird cause I always thought of Doc Wells as being name brand, but a cheapy compared to Kent, RedSea, Sea Chem, etc... But hey, I'd say go for it contact time aside it'll work better then a bag thrown in the old sump.

Just my .02 cents,
Sean Ward

 

[reefann]

Hey Quigonsean,
When was the last time you were at That Fish Place? I was there last week and I was talking to a high up guy about why they had a bunch of tanks torn down. He said they are taking out the invert room, moving it to make it larger. He then said that all the inverts will be in a long tank to be viewed from above. Then 400w metal halides came up and he said that tehy are going to be using a buch of them to keep more clams and SPS. The invert room will become a fresh water planted room. I think they will be adding more salt FO's to. Just a FYI after these improvements they will definatley be worth making a trip for.
JJ
My biggest hope is they start bringing in some decent rock so I can pick through it. All of theirs is crap! If you want some good rock in PA check out Tony's Tropical Fish and Birds, he is in York and he gets some great aquacultured rock.
_________________
Isetta
_________________
what causes inflation

 

[Quigonsean]

Reefan - Last time I was up there was about 2 months ago. I love that place as there prices are the same as any mail order or online store, and it's huge. I can't wait to see the changes, it'll be nice to be able to check out the inverts without having a heat stroke. That little invert room is about 2million degrees. Yeah there rock sucks and it is the only thing not priced like mail order. When I asked about quantity discount the told me 10% if I buy 100lbs or more. So I bought 80lbs of Kaleni from premium Aquatics much cheap[er. Heck it was sposed to be Uncured but within 4 days the reeding where0,0,0 and it never stank. That's been the thing despite that I love T.F.P. the service I get online with Premium Aquatics is unreal. When I inquired about shipping cost to me here in MD Jayson said oh your in the 2 day for regular ground, so anything that normally requires 2 day to get the garantee he'll send regular ground and still give me the garentee. So, I've done most of my shopping there, plus they take Pay Pal which is great as I have no credit card.
York huh for that other shop. You must live relatively close to me. I'm in North Harford Co. MD Not to fare from Delta and Airville, I'd say about 20 minutes drive south of Delta PA.

Sean

 

[ChrisRD]

[cough]

hijack

[/cough]



Thanks for the feedback so far everyone.

Anyone else have comments/feedback on a chemical chamber?

 

[bowfront]

Richard Harker did an article on carbon use a while back. Here’s a link:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm ... efault.asp

In the article he concludes:

Granular activated carbon is a valuable tool for the reef hobbyist. It can play a significant role in maintaining a healthy tank. The hobby’s traditional approach to the use of carbon, however, has been misguided. Optimum use of carbon requires only periodic use. Slow circulation of water through small amounts of carbon will remove significant amounts of color. Passive use of carbon, as well as circulation through high-volume power filters should be avoided.

I run two chemical reactors. One is filled a layer of carbon and a layer of Phospban. This is fed with a slow steam from the return. My ca reactor effluent goes directly into the other one which is filled with Phosban. These are the same reactors mentioned above. I think for the price they are hard to beat.

Here’s a picture

 

[ChrisRD]

Thanks Bowfront!

How often do you change out your Phosban?