Further discussion about filtration methodologies

[Anonymous]

Split thread from http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=54402

Well I see you have updated and added skimmer. Andl that you have bought aquarium sand and live rock. So I guess I can't help you save that money.

What I would stongly recommend is adding (if you haven't already) plant life such as macro algaes or marine plants. IME they will do more to establish your system and make it more goof proof than any man made device.

Just my .02

 

[Fatal Morgana]

>... IME they will do more to establish your system and make it more goof proof than any man made device.

Maybe true in your experience, but nothing offer you more buffer for mistake than a good skimmer.

 

[tazdevil]

Beaslbob posted:

Well I see you have updated and added skimmer. Andl that you have bought aquarium sand and live rock. So I guess I can't help you save that money.

Just because he bought LR, sand, and a skimmer doesn't mean he's spending lots of money. FWIW, I just finished setting up a 37 gallon with 2-3 inches of sand, 45 lbs LR, and a aquac remora skimmer, 2 powerheads and 1 HOB Whisper filter without media, eboj heater. Just under 500 for all this and tank and stand. That's pretty low budget for any sw tank.


Macro's if they crashed in your system wouldn't save you any money either.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I see you have updated and added skimmer. Andl that you have bought aquarium sand and live rock. So I guess I can't help you save that money.

What I would stongly recommend is adding (if you haven't already) plant life such as macro algaes or marine plants. IME they will do more to establish your system and make it more goof proof than any man made device.

Just my .02

I disagree with pretty much everything bob has said in his post, and I caution new reefers to look out for easy answers that have few advocates. If it sounds too good to be true, it prolly is.

 

[Anonymous]

You'll have to look over Bob. He has a one track mind.

plants, plants, plants, plants, plants, plants, plants, plants, plants, plants


I suspect every time he looks at a book on plants he gets "excited" as a teenage boy with thier playboy magazines. 8O

 

[Anonymous]

One of the nice things about this hobby is there are so many different standard ways of doing things.

I disagree that $500 to set up a 37 gallon tank is either not expensive or necessary. We make consderable more than the median family income here and $500 for a 37g is simply way too much money. The very first things not bought would be the skimmer, LR, and LS.

 

[liquid]

The whole point of recommending a skimmer, live rock, live sand is that it makes the system MUCH more robust and easier for the newbie to run. Granted you can run a tank solely on macroalgaes (highly dependent on what coral you want to keep), but you *really* have to know what you're doing and have a good eye for watching for things from day to day and know what's happening almost before it happens and how to fix it. A newbie isn't going to have this knowledge. I personally feel that you're recommendation of only macroalgaes is very dangerous for the newbie.

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

The whole point of recommending a skimmer, live rock, live sand is that it makes the system MUCH more robust and easier for the newbie to run. Granted you can run a tank solely on macroalgaes (highly dependent on what coral you want to keep), but you *really* have to know what you're doing and have a good eye for watching for things from day to day and know what's happening almost before it happens and how to fix it. A newbie isn't going to have this knowledge. I personally feel that you're recommendation of only macroalgaes is very dangerous for the newbie.

Shane

Shane:

I respectifully disagree. I think the newbies can grow macros just as readily as they grow the algae in the LR/LS. And if they don't have to mess with a skimmer, that is simply one less thing to worry about and have fail.

To me $0-$20 of macros and a $10 in tank refugium is much easier, more effecive for the newbie.

 

[liquid]

FWIW, if I had started out with only macroalgaes I would have quit the hobby long ago. I actually tried that route once after I had a year or so experience under my belt and the tank was a HUGE failure.

Shane

 

[Fatal Morgana]

A nice skimmer can keep up with a rotting fish, but how long will it take for the plant life to take the nutrient out and incorporate it in the growth?

There are merit to algea, but for newbies, it is best to let them use the safer approach.

 

[Anonymous]

A nice skimmer can keep up with a rotting fish, but how long will it take for the plant life to take the nutrient out and incorporate it in the growth?

Immediately

There are merit to algea, but for newbies, it is best to let them use the safer approach.

I simply disagree.

 

[liquid]

I still wanna see a pic of your reef that's run 100% on macroalgaes.

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

I still wanna see a pic of your reef that's run 100% on macroalgaes.

Shane

That's not what I am saying. Gee can I have a DIY filter box? :roll:

 

[Fatal Morgana]

A nice skimmer can keep up with a rotting fish, but how long will it take for the plant life to take the nutrient out and incorporate it in the growth?

Immediately

Again, let me stress something that oftentimes missed by many people, even chemists. There are three main concepts in chemistry, one is equilibrium, and the other is kinetics. The former tells you rather something is possible, the latter how fast. The third concept is scale, and industrial chemist usually is more keen on this. When you say "immediately," no body will disagree with you. But the point here is at what scale. You can give a toy water gun to fireflighter, and no one will say that water won't come out (equilibrium), or immediately (kinetics). But the point here is rather that's the right tool for the job (scale).

 

[Anonymous]

I think the newbies can grow macros just as readily as they grow the algae in the LR/LS. And if they don't have to mess with a skimmer, that is simply one less thing to worry about and have fail.

To me $0-$20 of macros and a $10 in tank refugium is much easier, more effecive for the newbie.

Bob, this is exactly the kind of advice I think you should not be giving to newbies. You assertion that they are growing algae in the LR/LS is based on one quasi study that was really a request for more infomation.
You have 1 years experience with reefs and you are willing to bet other peoples money that you are right, and you still haven't given anyone any reason to take you seriously - a pic of your thriving, fully stocked reef system.
I think you are doing everyone a disservice posting this kind of stuff.

 

[Anonymous]

I still wanna see a pic of your reef that's run 100% on macroalgaes.

Shane

That's not what I am saying. Gee can I have a DIY filter box? :roll:

Actually that is what you have been saying/implying, but for some reason you think otherwise. You are giving lots of newbies that impression, which is why RDO staff has been trying to get you to stop.

 

[HClH2OFish]

One of the nice things about this hobby is there are so many different standard ways of doing things.

This is very true....

I disagree that $500 to set up a 37 gallon tank is either not expensive or necessary. We make consderable more than the median family income here and $500 for a 37g is simply way too much money. The very first things not bought would be the skimmer, LR, and LS.

Please remember to state that this is your opinion and experience Others mileage may vary. IME that's not a bad price at all given that it includes the LS, LR and the skimmer ....and buying the LR and LS does more than just assist w/the Nitrogen cycle, it seeds the tank w/critters that you don't get from base rock, plain sand.
As far as the skimmer.... there are diff. ways to export dissolved organics but with a reef tank, skimmers have been shown to be highly effective.

I agree that plant life is good, but I'm still loathe to run a *reef* tank w/o one.

 

[liquid]

I still wanna see a pic of your reef that's run 100% on macroalgaes.

Shane

That's not what I am saying. Gee can I have a DIY filter box? :roll:

So what exactly are you saying? From all the posts I'm reading you're advocating running all reef tanks on 100% macroalaes.

Shane

 

[HClH2OFish]

While I agree that having plant life is a good thing (can't wait to get a good sump/fuge going for my 25) the problem is this:
For a new reefkeeper, they are still learning quite a few things about reefkeeping....having skimmers, etc. is much more forgiving.
And while I'll defer to you on FO tanks w/algae in em...as far as reefs go, I'm going to have to side with those who have *years* of experience with reefs.

 

[Anonymous]

While I agree that having plant life is a good thing (can't wait to get a good sump/fuge going for my 25) the problem is this:
For a new reefkeeper, they are still learning quite a few things about reefkeeping....having skimmers, etc. is much more forgiving.
And while I'll defer to you on FO tanks w/algae in em...as far as reefs go, I'm going to have to side with those who have *years* of experience with reefs.

I wouldn't even dream of running a FO system with macros as the sole filtrative element. I've run several large FO (and more to the point, predator) systems in the past, and heavy mechanical filtration is one of the keys. When you have a puffer that ingests food and leaves actual particulate food matter in the tank, that has to be removed somehow before it decomposes. Yes, the macros will help deal with some of the resulting ammonia and nitrate spikes, but good mechanical filtration will remove the unused food before it becomes a problem. Why involve that extra step?