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Anonymous

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I'm thinking putting it in the output pipe of the ER skimmer is best for a few reasons--lots of flow, gets aerated quickly, and is not near the pump intake. Another option is to put it in the refugium. What do you think?

Oh yeah, the Kalk topoff from a dosing pump is already inside the skimmer's return pipe...will that cause problems if both the Kalk drip and Ca reactor effluent are near each other?
 

rabagley

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That sounds great, though you want to be careful about the location of the effluent outputs with relation to each other: close but not too close.

Actually, having the kalk and sand reactor outputs in the same area works out rather nicely since the sand reactor effluent contains excess CO2, which is exactly what the kalk effluent needs to rebalance (the excess OH- in the kalk effluent will usually convert atmospheric CO2 into CO3-- and HCO3- depending on availability, the sand reactor output makes CO2 very available). The tendency of a kalk reactor to raise pH and depressing CO2 levels is completely offset by the tendency of a sand reactor to lower pH and raise CO2 levels.

To avoid having abiotic precipitation in the effluent discharge area, you should locate the two tubes so that the effluent mix together turbulently. A solution that works for me is to have one upstream of a turbulent mixing area (partially closed gate valve) and one downstream of the mixing area. Having the effluent appear too close together causes the pH of the stronger to overbalance the weaker (don't remember which is which, probably could be either) and results in scale on nearby surfaces. If either effluent is well-diluted before mixing with the other, the pH difference becomes insignificant and the risk of precipitation small.

Regards,
Ross
 
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I'm not sure I understand why you need to dose kalk when you are running a reactor...just exactly how much calcium do you need? 8O
 
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Do you turn the reactor off at night? I'm sorry, I just can't seem to wrap my pretty lil head around this one.

Dripping kalk at night it offsets the pH swing...because your ca reactor is working 24hrs, or do you turn the reactor off at night? Does your pH normally fall too far at night?

*thumps head against wall* What am I missing? I feel so dumb now :twisted:
 
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Anonymous

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All systems with photosynthetic animals tend to have a lower pH at night, lowest at dawn. Corals and algae put O2 into the water and consume CO2 during the daytime, which keeps the pH high. At night, they do just the opposite.

The reactor is on all the time. I don't know if a reactor could even be run intermittently and still work right :? Anyway, it has a tendency to lower the pH as I'm sure ya know.

Kalk accomplishes the same thing except it raises the pH while doing it. If I dose Kalk during the day my pH actually goes a little too high. Right now it stays at about 8.4. At night my pH is about 8.3. I want to minimize the day/night swing as much as possible.
 
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Those who run a Ca reactor and a Kalk reactor at the same time, normally do so to compliment each other. Where the Ca reactor maintains the availability of Ca and various other ions as the media is dissolved, the Kalk reactor tends to maintain hardness, and helps scavange/counteract excess CO2 released in the Ca reactor effluent or produced as a metabolic by-product of aquatic life.

"Actually, having the kalk and sand reactor outputs in the same area works out rather nicely since the sand reactor effluent contains excess CO2, which is exactly what the kalk effluent needs to rebalance (the excess OH- in the kalk effluent will usually convert atmospheric CO2 into CO3-- and HCO3- depending on availability, the sand reactor output makes CO2 very available). The tendency of a kalk reactor to raise pH and depressing CO2 levels is completely offset by the tendency of a sand reactor to lower pH and raise CO2 levels. "

Depending on the size of a fluidized bed filter (I assume this is what's meant by a "sand filter") it is doubtful that a substantial anerobic effect will develop across the bed considering the flow-rate thru sand filters. OH- ions, in the presence of CO2, are MUCH more likely to form calcium carbonate, and precipitate out of solution as a solid. Based on this, a kalk reactor's effluent should be placed close to return-pump suction, but far enough away to allow mixing before re-entering the display's water column. There, it is more effective at offsetting CO2 in the display, and controlling/stabilizing pH in the tank.

The lion's share of "excess CO2" in a system is produced/introduced from plant/aquatic life off-gasing after the lights go out. Caulerpa, Xenia, and others stop producing oxygen as a photosynthetic by-product in the absence of light ...the CO2 they produce in darkenss is released into the water column. These sources and an improperly tuned Ca reactor are the MAJOR CO2 sources in a system. For this reason, Ca reactor effluent should always be directed through a refugium, if present in the system, or into a skimmer's intake to aerate it aggressively before returning to the tank. This way, less OH- ions are "lost" to precipitation and are available to buffer system pH.

Overall, considering a finite water volume, and even the hulk systems out there are finite. The thought that somehow a "localized build-up" of any element can occur is not realistic. To test this, put one drop of red food coloring into a corner of your sump, and count the seconds before it is completely imperceptible. ...Most reef systems have a turnover rate of 10-20 times total water volume per hour. It's pretty safe to assume a uniform distribution of ions with that kind of movement. So, anywhere for the effluents is okay.
 

rabagley

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Snapper":33d26hve said:
Depending on the size of a fluidized bed filter (I assume this is what's meant by a "sand filter")

No, I used "sand filter" to refer to a "Calcium Reactor". I am looking for a better term when talking about a kalk reactor and a "Calcium Reactor" in the same context (since they're both Calcium reactors). perhaps I ought to say "Aragonite/CO2 reactor" instead...

Kalk and Aragonite/CO2 reactors are complementary in theory, and I have found that using both kinds of Ca reactors at the same time works really well to keep the tank balanced, and Alk and Ca levels high. Matt was asking for clarification on how to best run the effluent lines.

Snapper":33d26hve said:
The lion's share of "excess CO2" in a system is produced/introduced from plant/aquatic life off-gasing after the lights go out.

Not necessarily. If you've got a Aragonite/CO2 Reactor going great guns, you'll find that your pH gets low and stays low due to the excess CO2 added by the reactor. The reactor output overwhelms the algae respiration rate.

Snapper":33d26hve said:
Overall, considering a finite water volume, and even the hulk systems out there are finite. The thought that somehow a "localized build-up" of any element can occur is not realistic.

The only place I'm talking about this imbalance existing is right at the opening of the effluent line from each reactor. The kalk effluent has a high pH, the aragonite effluent has a low pH. Don't get them too close together is all I'm saying. Even a few inches of turbulent flow causes enough mixing that it doesn't matter (in agreement with your point about fast mixing of ions).

Clear(er)?

Regards,
Ross
 
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Anonymous

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In retrospect, it's obvious we're saying the same thing(s)

A little case study of mine...

Once, my make up water system, which consists of a level sensing switch in my sump, that would turn on a pump and pump water thru a DIY Kalk reactor, malfunctioned in the "on" position. It pumped fresh water from a 60 gal reservoir!

My Kalk reactor was 6 feet tall, and had about 5 pounds of kalk powder in it. Well, after about 30-40 gallons went thru the reactor, there was no kalk left ...it had all gone into my system, along with fresh water. My entire water volume was around 500 gallons. SSSSSlight salinity change.

They way I first noticed something was wrong was when I came down into the basement and could not see into my tanks ..all opaque. Of course, I filled my pants.

But, after about 2-3 hours, everything settled back down. I added a little salt ..straight into my protein skimmer, and all was well.

There was absolutley no ill effects, at all. That occurrance tells me, that a healthy, thriving system has a lot of flexibility to it, and can stand a little screw-up here and there, as well as telling me, that a drip drip from ANY type of effluent, really doesn't matter.
 

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