Weird Cyano problem

[RWillieK]

I have been battling Cyano for a while, and thought I had it pretty much gone.

Last thursday I took my skimmer out (intank, air driven skimmer). And they Cyano was gone the next day.

I put the skimmer back in today (was soaking/cleaning etc), and it came back!


What is going on here?

Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

I think your skimmer is working ... it just takes a while for your DOC to build up (phosphates, nitrates, etc), and the cyano to come back.

FWIW, I recently switched over to rodi, and had a masive outbreak of cyano. I think I killed it though... I'm running Rowaphos and it's now gone, coraline algae is starting to take off, and the tank has done a complete 180.

Also, don't know how long your lighting period is, but I cut my lighting back to 6 hours a day. The corals like it (Hammer, frogspawn, pipe organ, some encroaching stuff, shrooms, etc), but the cyano is gone!

HTHs,
~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

Skimmer is certainly working - within hours of plugging it back in, its pulled an eigth cup of slime....a little wet, but the skimmer was totaly cleaned...so wet foam was expected.

A little update - I let the skimmer run over night, and unplugged it this morning.....there were some thin patches on the sand when I unplugged it.

Two hours after, the cyano has disappeared.


I've been pondering the water chemistry going on.......could the micro bubbles be increasing or decreasing the pH by dissolving CO2 and O2 in the water?

I need a new pH test kit.....

Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting... there must be a certain chemical balance between nitrates, and phosphates and some how, the skimmer may be offsetting just enough to really make the cyano go balistic. At least that is what I observed when I switched over to a purer water (ro vs tap)...but keep in mind, the cyano is a symptom, not the problem.

Tell us more about the tank. How long has it been up? Using ro/tap? Lighting? How long do the lights stay on? Fish? Corals? What are you feeding?

~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

I forgot to mention all of that in my last post.

The tank is a 40 gallon long.....its been set up for about 2.5 years as a FOWLR, and I'm slowly converting to a reef (first corals went in yesterday).

The tank has 35 +/- lbs or LR, 50-60 pounds of play sand (thinking about pulling out, and putting in a thin layer or crushed coral).

Lighting used to be 4 4' NO bulbs, but recently changed to 4 x 65w PC (12KKs and 03 Actinics). Light cycle is about 8.5-9 hours long.

Inhabitants include 1 Royal Gramma, 2 False Clowns, 1 Six line wrasse, 1 Sand sifter star, and a few inverts (very few).

As mentioned before, I've been running a Red Sea Berlin Air Lift 90 protein skimmer with decent results....the tank is pretty lightly stocked, so it doesn't pull a huge amount of skimmate.


As for my battle with cyano, I have cut back on feeding....run carbon, run a PhosX pillow (at the same time), and I do weekly 5 gallon water changes.

pH sits at 8.1-8.2
Ammonia - trace
Calc 450-500ppm
temp 80-82
nitrates 0
nitrites slight trace
phosphates 0-trace

I have been using RO water from the LFS since I set up the tank....I am going to change water sources through - found a new lfs that I like a lot more, even better the water is cheaper.

My last resort is chemical treatement, but I really don't want to go that far.
Nice white sand would be nice though



Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

Ok. I can only go by what worked for me:
1. What kind of coral? You can still cut back your lights to ~6 hours. Lighting could also be a major cause of cyano. The fact that you changed lighting could also trigger the outbreak.

2. I tried using phosguard (aluminum based), and it didn't work.
As soon as I switched to Rowaphos (iron based), about a week went by and the issue of cyano was gone.

3. If it's on the gravel, syphon it out with a water change, you are exporting nutrients when you do this.

4. Cut way back on feeding. Phosphate is a major ingredient of most foods. Cyano somehow uses PO4 along with high nitrates.

5. Believe it or not...skim like crazy.

On a side note, you should never have any ammonia going on in your tank. If you do, something else is going on, which can be triggering your cyano outbreak too.

hth's
~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah.. don't do a chemical, or anti-bacterial treatment... yeah you will kill the cyano, but also the good bacteria that balances out your tank! (not to mention, you're treating the symptom, not the underlying problem)

~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

yeah, thats why its the last resort.......my biggest problem is I can't figure out what the underlying problem is!!

I am going to try switching salt brands as well - I mixed the last of the Red Sea salt....who knows, maybe thats the problem.

Robbie

 

[RobertoVespucci]

I had an air pump for a freshwater tank that continously leaked a small amount of lubricant into the airline. I had to replace the tubing about every 3-4 months to keep it from getting into the tank. It's my understanding cyano can feed on dissolved organics, so it might be worth a try. Suck a breath through the airline tubing from your skimmer, and if it's fouled you'll know.

 

[Anonymous]

RWillieK
Or, before you change, test the mixture before you add it to the tank.

Do you have a sump?

~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

Never heard of that Robert, but I did just change all of the air line tubing when I cleaned the skimmer.

I have tested the mixture before adding it, Phos =0, (i'll check it again when its fully mixed to double check)

But I have noticed the tubing I fill my containers with has a black mold/bacteria growing in it.....this has always concerned me.

No sump any more - got tired of vacuuming up water from the carpet.

Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

So what are you using for water movement? Powerheads? FWIW, I think the skimmer is what's keeping your tank afloat right now. I'd keep that thing running 24/7.

~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

For water movement I have a MaxiJet 600 in one corner, and a 1200 in the other corner. Its a pretty good amount of flow. I am considering changing to a different flow design though.

Here is a previous thread on it:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65854

Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

Ok.. cool. Just make sure you skim like crazy. I would also run some rowaphos, or phosban. It's a little pricy, but IMO worth it. How long ago did you remove your sump? This could be why your amonia is a little high... when you removed your sump, you also removed bacteria that turns the amonia into a nitrogen form.

~wings~

 

[RWillieK]

I removed the sump about a year ago, so thats not causing a problem right now..

Running Phosban or anything isn't going to help, my phosphates read 0 on a brand new test kit.

Robbie

 

[Anonymous]

I removed the sump about a year ago, so thats not causing a problem right now..

Running Phosban or anything isn't going to help, my phosphates read 0 on a brand new test kit.

Robbie

Ok. Here's one line of a very good article on phosphates:

Fortunately, there are some effective ways of keeping phosphorus concentrations to acceptable levels. Unfortunately, the means for testing for total phosphorus are not trivial.

I don't know how you tested them, but this may be a good read for you. I found it very helpful.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 2/chem.htm

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

If I recall correctly, blue-green algaes like cyano can out compete higher orders of algae in low light situations, so, reducing the photoperiod may not help. I too, would skim 24/7 and just let nature take it's course...

I found this link to be very helpful too:

We have also noted that other nutrients play a role in growth and reproduction (dissolved organic carbon or material being an important one). Phosphate and iron are other ones.

Because of the usually high amount of pigments present in Cyanobacteria (as mentioned in Part 1), and because these pigments assist in the photosynthesis process (both PS I and PS II or Photsystem I and II), light does plays a great role in their growth and bears looking at some more. Indeed, slime algae of various colors can appear when the light source has degraded and when the wavelengths mentioned in Part 1 are suddenly becoming stronger (more intense or appear as a greater proportion of the total amount of lighting provided that penetrates the water.

This is often overlooked. Hobbyists are more likely to look for other reasons to explain the blue-green growths, and forget that old bulbs, fluorescents tubes, and other forms of lighting may need to be replaced to eliminate the spectra that are undesirable in terms of their effect on Cyanobacterial growth in general.

This whole article is a great read... at least I thought so. Oh.. this article also says that p04 is not the only cause of cyano, but that it is a contributor.

http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/r ... eria3.html

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

The other thing I'd like to add is that of P04 testing. Testing zero could be a false negative. The phos is probably getting used up by your cyano/blue greens/diatoms/other algae(caulerpa/turtle grasses/etc.) which ,in turn, makes the test kits read zero. Your P04 may be high and you just do not know it.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah! Very good point.
~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Have you considered that when you disconnected the skimmer, there was now more nutrients for plant life. And the more active plant life also consumed the phosphates and therefore starved the cyano?

Once you removed the nutrinents again, the plant life slowed again and more phosphates were available for the cyano?