Ceramic clay Live rock: what are your thoughts?

[FragMaster]

A solution to live rock being taken from our reefs, as well as aquacultured rock on the seafloor :

There was a discussion on seahorses.org a while back where a poster used it to make his own DIY live rock.
It has since been set up in a reef enviorment for some time now and is covered in coraline and coral. There were no advers effects. (IE ph increases,trate rises, ect ect...)
He used a white inhert clay that was fired in a kiln UNGLAZED.
He had mentioned that this method has been in use in Europe for years in certaincircles.

This process is more expensive than traditional rock but the results could litteraly save our reefs.

What are your thoughts?

 

[FragMaster]

anyone?
Matt? ( you did ask me to start this thread )

 

[FragMaster]

OOPS double.

 

[Anonymous]

I like the idea just because of the potential shapes that can be created. I would still want to put in a few chunks of reef rock to seed this artificial stuff though.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalo ... ?cPath=146

 

[FragMaster]

That stuff is a direct result in some one trying to scam you.
$239.00 for one rock.
a 25lb box of inhert clay will run you around $25. the cost to fire it however I hava no idea.
$239.00 for one rock. OMG I am in the wrong business! LOL!!!


Yeah you definately have to seed it. Thats what the guy from seahorse.org
did. I cant find that thread thought to save my life!
Dickie would remember if he would ever pop his head back in and say hi! LOL!
NOt just the shapes and sizes but the over all potential posetive effect this could have is amazing.
Think of it. Full lush reefs our grand children could enjoy because we found a way to perfectly simulate live rock with nothing from the ocean but seed rock ( which could be done via tiny pieces.)
No more nasty hitchhickers. all you would have to do then is buy propogated coral prejudiciously and you would have a 100 percent man made reef completely sparing the existing reefs from any harm.

What about this as well?
Crushed ceramic for substrate.
I dont know how well that would go over but I bet you could do it!

 

[trido]

The price for those nice looking pieces were a little on the extremely pricey side. Wouldnt it be more cost effective to make aragocrete rocks and also have the benefits of the aragonite slowly disolving? Clay may definately be another alternative for some DIY rocks though.

 

[FragMaster]

Yup, but heres the thing. Aragonite also comes from crushed coral,shells, and rock taken from the the ocean.
Clay comes from the earth.
I am just trying to float some ideas out there to see if its possible to have a 100 percent artificial reef (as in rock and substrate foriegn to the ocean).

 

[trido]

Agreed. Im all for not raping our oceans to extinction. Also im looking at shelling out some seroius dough for LR for the 120 real soon. I am definately going to DIY some rock for the 90 as my next big project. This is a great thread for me to watch closely.

 

[FragMaster]

Hey Duane,
Wanna be our guinea pig? LOL!!!
Only $25 per 25lb box, you could have it fired at your local high school, and tell them its for an enviormental project. ( which in a way it would be actualy) Could save you a bundle!

I have to find out the cone rating to be sure wich type of the inhert to buy though.

 

[Anonymous]

LR is a renewable resource and is a much needed economic commodity for some people. If carefully collected it is a sustainable resource.

 

[fyrefysh]

Another idea would be pumice, it seems fairly easy to come by and may be ugly in its natural form, but with some seeding and coraline algae it would look great! And also it is very light and pourose, great for the beneficial bacteria.

 

[trido]

Sure i'll try it. IF you can find me the link for the inert stuff i'll definately make a few nice cutom pieces. And you did the home work.I'd bet my three year old can make a more natural looking rock than myself.
Also, on the west coast here there are alot of little pottery shops that would most likely be willing to fire any thing you bring them. The big trick would be to keep glaze from other art from getting on it. I guess if it is just random rock you could break any stray glaze off with a chizel. How about just throw it in an open fire?

 

[Anonymous]

Pumice can have a variable chemical composition. In general it is probably safe, but I doubt that all pumices are reef safe.

 

[FragMaster]

Thats why you use "inhert" clay.
It is nuetral and safe after it is fired.
I know I am calling the kettle black some what here, but I realy think this can work. and if it does then guess what ? You can rely on it for profitability as much as real rock. Lets face it one day in the not so distant future they will ban all live rock taken from the ocean forever, all over the world. Including fiji and haitti.




Ok Duane, I will do the home work and send you all the links.
I will get in touch with Dickie who knows the guy that posted the original thread, just tomake sure I get it all correct.
Like I said I have to get the cone rating right. Thats critical.

 

[Anonymous]

LR is a renewable resource and is a much needed economic commodity for some people. If carefully collected it is a sustainable resource.

This is a good point. LR is not torn, blasted, ripped, or even collected from living reefs. It would be too expensive to do it that way. It's generally collected in broken pieces from near the shore where it washes up.

But not always. Here in Taiwan the collection of LR has been completely banned, because the government doesn't trust collectors to collect it responsibly.

I've seen some of those hand sculpted ceramic rocks. And they look nice. But the ones I saw were VERY pricey, pricier than most of the livestock people buy.

I think using dead base rock is the best alternative, if it's then seeded with a little bit of live rock or sand.

 

[FragMaster]

LR is not torn, blasted, ripped, or even collected from living reefs.

Brother you had better read a little about Tonga, Fijji , The Marshal Islands, Pompey, Haitti, and many other forms of live rock.
They are ALL collected directly from wild reefs.
None of it is collected near the shore line where it washes up.
Thats where you get the nasties, like polutants.

Dead Base rock is quarried or mined inland.

 

[minibowmatt]

this has been discussed pretty well on zoosrus. here is a link: http://www.zoosrus.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2141&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

As a H.S. teacher, I have talked with Ceramics instructors, and they have assured me that the right clay (no iron, or other heavy metals) properly fired would be reef safe. I havent looked into it too much, but I agree, it seems cheap. Plus, a lot of towns have a local ceramics studio that will do your firing for a minimal cost. just dont glaze it!

 

[Anonymous]

Many glaze has metal, some even have lead. But do any of you have a link that give elemental analysis of the clay? I assume it is mostly aluminum oxide.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget the silica, 7E. In general, the clay minerals we're taking about are hydrated aluminosilicates, something along the line: Al2O3 - 2SiO2 - 2H2O. Clay chemistry is a complex subject though with lots of cation substitution, etc. so that formula definitely isn't cast in stone.

 

[GSchiemer]

Walt Smith sells a manufactured and aquacultured live rock out of Fiji. It's terrific stuff. It's lightweight, colorful and contains a lot of TROPICAL lifeforms. In addition, it pumps money into the local Fijian economy and reduces the collection of "wild" live rock. It's a win-win.