corals dying

[Archmage]

okay,

I'm getting a little discouraged here. Hoping to get some ideas as to why my corals are dying.

setup:

30 gallon cube

time:about 7 months

SG: 1.24 (based on hydrometer)

Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0
Calcium: 360
Alkanity: 6 dKH (test indicating that 4 to 10 was acceptable)


Running skimmerless
Ecosystem 40 to export nitrates from system.
One Aquaclear (170 gallons/H)
One Rio pump (in the ecosystem 40) to main tank
One modified Quiet One 3000 ( 800 Gallons/h) so that it doesn't kick up a sandstorm.


Two 24" 150 Watt MH (Aquastarlite)
300 Watts total over my 30" Cube.
Temperature fluctuates from 79.9 to 81.

Main inhabitants:

6 Mexican snails
6 turbo snails
30 hermit crabs
40 small nassarius snails
2 peppermint shrimps

4 percula clowns
1 Ebli Angel
1 Lawnmower blenny

2 flowerpots ( I know, I know)
one small pumping xenia
2 areas of anthelias
two small caps
one tiny quarter inch acro frag
three montopora digitas
one bird's nest


The flowerpots are doing okay.
The anthelias are becoming a nuisance
The two caps haven't really made any real changes in term of growth but seems to be okay in color.
The tiny frag was originally part of my first acro that rtn'd within three days of below event. Only one tiny piece refused to die, so I fragged it and retained.
The bird's nest was doing fine for a while and then began to also rtn at the same time as my first acro. They were all doing fine until I tried to add a supposedly reef-safe ich medication into my tank. One day later, the acro I had and the bird's nest started dying. I've already made huge amounts of water changes (this was done about 3 months ago) More than 75% water changes and subsequent bi-weekly water changes of 20%. I ran carbon and also used the chemical filter (Polyfilter) for several days. Now, I've tried to introduce 6 different acros on different occasions and they have all died within 3 days of introduction into my tank. I usually waited 2 weeks from the death of one coral to the introduction of the next. Hoping that the next would survive. Sadly not so. I know that the corals I'm buying are wildcaught but all six in a row has really dampened my enjoyment.
(At a cost of 60 dollars each)
I bought them from Fishtown.


any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks

 

[mgchan]

I feel your pain. I had an acro that more than doubled in size. It was dense, not leggy and under PCs. After 8 months, it and a hammer died.

Did you feed them? i.e. - phytoplankton, calcium, etc.

Where did you place them in your tank and was the flow directed on them?

 

[mgchan]

I wanted to add, IMO, it's possible the corals may already have been dying when you bought them.

It may not be attributed to anything you're doing 'wrong.'

 

[NaClH2oTANK]

for them to die in three days it probably isnt anything you forgot to do like feed them.
the salinity may be high. some hydrometers measure incorrectly. do you test for copper? phosphates? what is your maintenance routine? no more polyfilter? how far are the lights from the surface and how far was the coral from the surface? are they new bulbs? did you buy the lights used and maybe the bulbs are old? what temp are the bulbs? and yes, the corals could have been dieing already? did you try buying from a different place? try a lps. what freshwater do you use before you mix your salt? how much do you top off? 6 is kinda high for the alk. i think

 

[jackson6745]

6dkh or about 2.15meq/l is kind of low along with a low calcium reading of 360ppm is probably the reason you aren't getting much growth on your frags, but I don't believe it's the reason for your SPS to die in 3 days.
Do you monitor your PH? What is the PH reading in the morning before the lights come on and in the evening just after they go off?

Do you test for nitrates?Phosphates? I realize your run an ecosystem, but if you plan on going with SPS you WILL need a skimmer for long term success. Some have done SPS without a skimmer but it is more difficult and gernally skimmerless water quality isn't as high as skimmed water, also a skimmer will help maintain a higher PH.

Nitrates?
Phosphates?
PH?
you should bump up yor cal and alk to at least 400ppm and 8DKH. I run my cal at 440ppm and alk at 10.6 DKH

PS What is the name of the "Reef Safe" medication?

[ January 20, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

 

[marrone]

All the fish and inverts are in my opinion us to much for a 30gal cube. You have 6 fish in a 30gak tank and I would think that you nitrates are high because of this. The Ecosystem 40 are you running it with the bio balls? If you are this will increase nitrates into your tank.

You just have to much for a 30gak tank. It's either have to be more corals and less fish and invert or less corals. Or maybe a bigger tank.
Michael

 

[Archmage]

Thank you for your advice.

I didn't test for copper because none of my inverts are dying. I always considered inverts to be the most vulnerable to copper and since none of my inverts were dying, I thought it safe to consider that there are no copper or little copper in my system.
I also read that you can't really test for phosphates since the algae and macroalgae in my ecosystem would export it out from the water column directly and leave no trace of that. Is that mistaken?

I also run polyfilter once a week for 24 hours to clean the water a little.

As for my lights, I bought it used and the previous owner told me it was used six months. I was planning to buy new bulbs, but can the bulbs really make the corals die in such a short period?
It was built seven inches from the top of the tank. It is an open tank. The corals are place mid-tank with 24 hours of no lights then one set of lights on and the next set on 24 hours later.
For water changes, I use Deionized water and top off I do daily with kalk drip about 1 drop every three seconds. Usually that still requires me to add in 1/8 gallon of top-off replacement water which I pour into my tank slowly.

I forgot to mention that I have about six inches of aragonite sand on the bottom of my tank.

As for PH, I also tested it several times, not necessarily in the morning and evening, but the PH always seemed to stay within the range of 8.2 - 8.3. Plus, the Ecosystem has a light over it, for 24 hours a day which I've read would help to minimize PH changes since the refugium is essentially lit 24/7. Is that not the case?
My ecosystem does have bioballs which I've left in there. I will take them out. Does Nitrates cause corals to rtn?
As for the number of inhabitants, two of the clownfishes are very very tiny. About 1/2". The other two are little larger. But as you said, six fishes and the number of inverts in my tank might be too much for a thirty gallon tank.
The skimmerless idea was why I got the Ecosystem. I have to rethink on adding a skimmer and lowering the bioload in my tank. Thank you for your help.

 

[jackson6745]

Archmage, you answer too many questions with questions...LOL It is very possible that you have high nitrates and phosphates, both are a sign of diminishing water quality, both can be tested for, and both can cause RTN. You should run the polyfilter for longer than a day...give it a chance to turn somewhat brown before you toss it.
I would think your PH is not a problem since it reaches 8.3 and you drip kalk.
A good skimmer for a tank your size is a Aqua c remora hang on. You should use test kits from salifert, they're easy and accurate.

Rich

 

[mgchan]

Where you're placing the Acros, is there a good water flow around it? Not a strong flow directed at it?

Your one surviving Acro frag is doing well? I assume that's in a different spot than where you were placing the Acros?

Instead of spending another $60, I'd introduce another Acro frag to see how it would fare. Maybe one of the members here can sell you a frag. This way the frag is from an established tank.

It's not clear about your lights. Are you saying your lights are off for 24 hours, followed by one set going on for 24 hours, then the other for 24 hours?

Is this your light pattern?

Day 1 ( 0 - 24 hrs): 0 watts
Day 2 (25 - 48 hrs): 150 watts
Day 3 (49 - 72 hrs): 300 watts

 

[Archmage]

The light acclimation is as Mgchan said.

I just tested my nitrates. It is between 10-15 mg/l and under 20 mg/l. So the nitrates shouldn't be the problem, right?

I will pick up a phosphates test tomorrow to test.

 

[jackson6745]

The nitrates should be 0 but 10-15 isn't too bad. What is that lighting schedule you have? 24hrs no lights, then light for 24hrs? Why not just leave them on 10hrs per day?
I would say your lighting pattern is most likely the cause.

HTH,
Rich

 

[mgchan]

I have the same concern about the lighting. It should mimic regular sunlight hours... or at least close to it.

I'm not sure that would contribute to your corals' demise in 3 days but from what I've read RTN could be a result of the coral going into shock. With that light pattern and the halides, 48 hours of light may be too much.

That light pattern may work for the rest of your corals because they're used to it.

 

[Archmage]

This is my acclimation schedule. It isn't my normal lighting schedule. for newly introduced corals, (unfortunately each coral I put in is new)
I let sit without lights for 24 hours. 24 hours later, I let one of my lights on for 8 hours.
24 hours after that, I have my second light on for 5 hours.

So it goes from zero lighting to 150 watts 24 hours later then goes to 300 watts 24 hours after that. I should set no acclimation procedure for corals?

Thanks

 

[jackson6745]

If the coral came from under halides it will be fine with no acclimation. If it came from less lighting you can just start the coral out in the bottom of the tank where it will recieve less light. I wouldn't mess around with your lighting schedule. I would think you are stressing the corals that are already in your tank by doing this

HTH,
Rich

 

[SWW1268]

If you want you can try a piece of orange monti digi, let me know. I had an accident and now I have many small pieces.

[ January 27, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: SWW1268 ]