Tired of Advice

[Subskipper]

I find it completely amazing how many fish stores give different conflicting advice. You try really hard to go to find one store that has the "best" of the available advice and go with it.

I decided to give this a test and went to a few fish stores to ask a single question:

Is it safe to add a UV filter to a Reef Tank?

The answers:

Aqua Hut: Sure, what size aquarium?
Me: 65G
Aqua Hut: Sure, you need the 9watt UV filter.
Me: 9watt will kill parasites
Aqua Hut: Sure will, no big deal. Hook up a Rio 800 and open it full and parasites are gone.

Hmmmm...sounds fishy to me.

Country Critters

CC: Never, ever add a UV filter. It destroys all the beneficial critters in the tank. Adding a UV filter is like kissing your reef goodbye.
Me: I have Marine Ich
CC: Oh, then add a UV filter
Me: But you just said I would be kissing my reef goodbye
CC: No comment
Me: Ok what size UV filter to kill ICH
CC: 36W running REALLY slow throughput.

So I walked away, talked to another guy there. Asked the same question: UV filter on a reef tank?

Answer: Sure
Size: 18W running a Rio 600 fully open

hmmmm.....totally different advice from two reef specialists.

Syosset Pet & Fish

UV filter in reef tank?

Answer: Hell Yes!

They bring me back to 10 150 G SW tanks, each one has a set of UV filters (Bigger than I have ever seen).

They swear by it, each tank in their store, a lot of nice tanks, have UV filters on it. Even their show tanks.

Mineola:
UV Filter?
Required
Size?
9W

Now, I know everyone here has a different answer for this, and I am not really looking for an answer. I added an 18W UV last week to combat the ICH that keeps hitting my tank.

I went one step further and asked all the stores what substrate a reef tank should have.

Aqua Zone: Crushed Coral
CC: No substrate or 4inches of Sand
Syosset: 4 inches of sand
Mineola: Crushed coral

I think we all know that crushed coral in a reef tank is not the best idea. The bottom line was that the crushed coral was twice as expensive as sand. The Mineola store suggested that the filter system I needed was an Emperor 400.

The best advice I have gotten so far is from Country Critters, although like everything in life I have learned to take what they say with skepticism.

One of the greatest bits of advice was the brand of salt I am using. It is not the most expensive, or the cheapest but it keeps my ALK and CAL and all my other important trace elements at the perfect level with each water change and top off.

Sorry for the novel, just thought it was funny and frustrating how these "experts" can't seem to get on the same page. Oh one last thing. One store: Aqua Hut declares that the only filter a Reef tank needs is a Diatom Filter.

Thoughts, comments?

 

[Tim]

I`v been using a 25w uv since day one on my 110g reef and have had no problems to this date.Everything seems to be thriving well and no ick to speak of.Just my personal experience take it for what it is worth.....Tim

 

[House of Laughter]

Skipper,

Interesting empirical approach to this -

First off, the advice should have been that whatever fish you are putting into your tank is stressed and ICH is a result in stressing the fish - since it is present in the fish gills, you never really get rid of it, you just combat it - so, the UV is only necessary if, and only if, you want to maintain "that" fish which keeps getting ICH - now, sometimes it causes an epidemic as it seeks light to reproduce, so if you had an outbreak, then all your fish would have it (and may not be stressed).

I ran a UV on my Reef for about a year - I had a hippo tang that kept getting ICH - My reef thrived all year - with the exception of copepods and amphipods.

About 3 months ago I noticed the UV blew out and my tank was starting to get pods back again - I replced the UV and since then have been treating my tank to one gsarlic extreme treatment per week with Mysis shrimp soaked in it for about an hour.

Now, I have a brand new 18w UV sitting n the basement, pods so much that I bought a mandarin who seems to be doing well and no ICH present on any of my fish - every once in awhile I see a spot on the hippo, but he is getting bigger now and seems less vulnerable to stress.

Soon I will go back to putting my UV on for about 8 hours at the same time as my fuge light (reverse photoperiod) - I did this on my 30 gallon for a year and 1/2 - had tons of pods and a thriving reef.

That's my .04 on UV's -

House

 

[wedfr]

Ok i just have one question, Who told you these guys were experts? Most know very little, and just about all of them tell you what you need to hear in order to buy something. If you want good advice ask on here ask on reefcentral or reefs.org

 

[marrone]

Skipper

First you need to remeber that all LFS are in business to sell things. Some will give good advise but most will push what every they have in stock to sell to you. I've know many places that will tell you a certain fish can't be kept with other fish or in a reef tank but as soon as they get in the fish their opinon changes and they'll tell you just the opposite.

Another thing is everyone has their own way of doing their tank and what works for them mayn't work for everyone or mayn't be the "standard" in the hobby right now but that doesn't make it wrong either. What you need to do is get alot of different option and try what you think will work, and be flexible and change things if they're not working for you. If you look on RC you'll see alot of different setups, some with just a protein skimmer, live rock and a power head. Others will have wet/dry or sumps some will use canister filters or hang-on for water movement and some will have refugs.

As for the substrate a reef tank that has gone back and forward over the years and I'm sure will keep changing over time also. I have a tank setup from 1986 and has a fine layer of crushed coral, which at that time was the "new standard" in reef keeping. Then that changed for dsb and now it's back to bare bottom tanks. The things is my tank with the fine layer of crushed coral still works fine as probably does all those people that still have dsb.

As for UV you can probably find thousand of opinions on them. What you do want to do is quarant all your fish before placing them into your tanks. This way if they do have ich you can treat it before placing them into your tank and having other fish catch it.

Michael

 

[ShaunW]

Completely agree with wedfr. Most store employees I find are not "experts" in reefkeeping, and it is extremely rare to get honest, good advice there. I find that they usually know more about fish than corals.

I know you didn't want advice, but I would like to add my 2c to a good discussion,

.

Running a UV light is a catch22. If you have one you will never fully mimic the natural reef environment, since many creatures move throughout the water column and would be killed by the UV. These creatures are the natural food for most of our corals. Having them there creates a much more healthy reef system then not having them present.

[ September 08, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: solbby ]

 

[jcurry]

If your going to run a UV on any tank, I would think it would be most effective on a bare bottom QT tank. Quarantine the new fish for at least 2 weeks in QT tank with the UV on 24/7 at a slow gph.

My .02

Jeff

 

[inkblue]

...thought thiS would be good for all uS new foLks in the hoBBy :cool3: :lol:

 

[drunktank]

You can run a UV in a reef tank. But my suggestion to my customers is always run the UV before the water hits the sump that way a good number of pods will escape the refugium. The UV will kill most algae, or control outbreaks.. and control out breaks of Ich. It also can make the water a more clear for better viewing quality. Now if u wanna take the time to set up a QT tank and all then a UV may not be as imporant, but most people dont have the money/time/space for a QT tank. Secondly- for a tank of 55gallons or well u could easily use a 9w UV, and probably dont need a pump if u have a canister filter or sump plumbing. Just gotta remember that the bulbs only last 5-6months before theyt need to be replaced.

 

[inkblue]

drunK, customers? ...where d0 you work :scratchch

 

[ezee]

Advice

Subskipper,

I have had the same thoughts as you in past and this is what I have concluded.

After a lot of research on the web, as I am sure many others have done, I think what is important to remember is that everyone has their own particular method. As long as the person understands the ins and outs of reefkeeping and is not pulling ideas out of thin air then it is worth evaluating. This is, of course, different from the advice that you get from people that have no idea of what they are talking about.

For example, the DSB versus SS/BB debate. I think this is more a matter of style and both methods can work, most people that emphasize either point of view are usually pretty experienced and have used the methods. Whereas people who suggest CC are just plain wrong, at this point. There is too much data that refutes the use of CC, so much so that anyone who is still pushing it is either ill informed or trying to do a number on you.

The trick is to tell the difference between an educated opinion and a bunch of drivel. I usually try to gauge the person before the advice.

HTH

E

 

[inkblue]

agreed, i thiNk yoU have to respect the perSon first before yoou can listen to them. coZ no matter how much they know, if you dont respect them, it's all air and saliva :tongue1:

 

[Tonyscoots84]

the so called experts in the stores are sorry to say worthless. u gotta see some of the answers i get from petco. i laugh when i walk out of there. and for another example they have a guy in petsmart who work in the fish section. i ask him a question and he right away says is this saltwater and rec. me to the store about 20 min. away. i was like u have saltwater stuff here. hes like i wouldnt no wat to give you.. freakin people are stupid. anyways i neva trust a lfs or any petstore for advice 99% of the time they have no ideaaaaaaaa.

 

[DEEPWATER]

I use to use a UV on my reef tank ,Also had a hippo tang ,tent tang and sohal ,all where about 3 inchs long ,always had a prob with ich ,no matter what If they are stressed then ich will be visable ,but now i redid my tank ,(4months ago) ,got rid of all my tangs,but bought 2 yellow tangs for color and now since i got rid of my UV and other tangs ,No more ich ,thk g-d ,and my corals seem to be doing better (as far as reproducing)I think there is a reason why ppl dont use it ,But when i did ,,i used one and off ,Not all the time ,
Today I have no ich on my fish ,and no algea probs ,

 

[DEEPWATER]

Oh yeah ,,If you really want to get fed bu!!sshit ,,come shop inthe store in brklyn ,,
I went to 1000 island when i 1st started ,they sold me a ref lobster ,Now to newbie it sound ref safe ,(reef lobster)but litle did i know ,the lobster had a 160 meal of fresh blood and cleaner shrimp ,Now i dont know what anyone else would of done ,since it was about 2 months after that i started noticing that i only had 4 of my 10 shripm left ,I went back to tehm ,With the little **** ,and pics of my tank 2 months ago ,and a pic of the lobster have dinner ,so i got back my 6 other monly after they swore to me it was reef safe ,i pulled out a book and web sites pages that it wasnt ,but thisia tue story ,,
If you want to read about LFS ,,I had a thread about LFS ,and how they act to their custy ,,just a shame

 

[inkblue]

:lol: Deep, yoU funny sometimeS br0 :yeah: :icon16:

 

[cali_reef]

but bought 2 yellow tangs for color and now since i got rid of my UV and other tangs ,No more ich ,...Today I have no ich on my fish ,and no algea probs ,

Have you actually seen ich on a normal colored yellow tang before? I don't mean the two you have in your tank that don't have any according to your observation, but other people or LFS' yellow tangs. I don't think it is possible to see ich on yellow tang. I have yellow tangs and I know they must have ich when every other tang has it and all of them are scratching against rocks. JME..



I use a 40W UV in my tanks, I am not sure if it actually kills ich or anything else worth saving for the reef. It does keep the outbreaks down to a few days when the heater failed to come on. I think it is worth the investment if you have some ich loving fish (any tangs).

 

[Sean]

Skipper

First you need to remeber that all LFS are in business to sell things. Some will give good advise but most will push what every they have in stock to sell to you. I've know many places that will tell you a certain fish can't be kept with other fish or in a reef tank but as soon as they get in the fish their opinon changes and they'll tell you just the opposite.

Another thing is everyone has their own way of doing their tank and what works for them mayn't work for everyone or mayn't be the "standard" in the hobby right now but that doesn't make it wrong either. What you need to do is get alot of different option and try what you think will work, and be flexible and change things if they're not working for you. If you look on RC you'll see alot of different setups, some with just a protein skimmer, live rock and a power head. Others will have wet/dry or sumps some will use canister filters or hang-on for water movement and some will have refugs.

As for the substrate a reef tank that has gone back and forward over the years and I'm sure will keep changing over time also. I have a tank setup from 1986 and has a fine layer of crushed coral, which at that time was the "new standard" in reef keeping. Then that changed for dsb and now it's back to bare bottom tanks. The things is my tank with the fine layer of crushed coral still works fine as probably does all those people that still have dsb.

As for UV you can probably find thousand of opinions on them. What you do want to do is quarant all your fish before placing them into your tanks. This way if they do have ich you can treat it before placing them into your tank and having other fish catch it.

Michael

Thanks Michael that's the answer and it's true with all equipment in this hobby. not much is really needed and yet everything is needed.

keep in mind when you talk to someone in the hobby your getting there opinion from their experiences.

Also try going to some better stores with people who take the time and have the proper experience to help you better.

 

[jackson6745]

Subskipper all you need is saltwater, lights, flow, and a huge skimmer.....it works EVERY time

 

[DEEPWATER]

Have you actually seen ich on a normal colored yellow tang before? I don't mean the two you have in your tank that don't have any according to your observation, but other people or LFS' yellow tangs. I don't think it is possible to see ich on yellow tang. I have yellow tangs and I know they must have ich when every other tang has it and all of them are scratching against rocks. JME..



I use a 40W UV in my tanks, I am not sure if it actually kills ich or anything else worth saving for the reef. It does keep the outbreaks down to a few days when the heater failed to come on. I think it is worth the investment if you have some ich loving fish (any tangs).

only if gets on the fins ,then yup you can see it ,other wise ,you wil just have good or not good look yelow tang