Biggest Water change?

[FastUno]

When I moved from my 55g to a 90g with 30g sump, I only had 40g to throw into the new tank. The rest was newly made RO/DI/SW. Everything survived in the new setup.

I did a 5g weekly change in my 26g when I first started. Then I did 10g every 2-3 weeks in my 55g. Then a 10g every 2-3 weeks in my 90g. The longest I have gone without a water change (just to see what happens) is 3 months in my 90g recently. I have not noticed any differences, but was too worried to continue not to change water. I since have gone back to 10g every 2-3 weeks & try to do them closer to the 2 week mark.

I figure if you add 10g every 2weeks it will cost you 1.3x 200g buckets of salt. Not such a big price tag, considering the overall cost & the peace of mind.

 

[DRZL]

I think as long as PH, salinity and ALK are in unison w/ whats in your tank in the moment your good to go. I know calfo does 100% WC on his tank under 50G w/ synthetic salt and recommends it

like someone else said in the thread, is the lack of nutrients, and phosphate a problem?

Switching salts and putting it at 100% WC i see a problem since its a different chemical make up,
but personally I do %50 WC every 3-4 weeks and I think everything looks great


I forgot where but there is also an article on how many WC and at what % it would take to actually do any good.

off the top of the head, a 5% WC didnt do anything, and it would take 30 or more (because of the remixing w. old water) to make the same effect a one time 40-50% WC

food for thought I think

 

[NYPDFrogman]

I do 40 gal water changes every 2-3 weeks on my 180. I mix saltwater in a barrel right next to the tank about 2 days before I do the change I have a mag5 circulate the water and include a heater if needed to match temperature. during the first 24 hours I try to match the ater as close as possible( Ca, alk, mag, strontium, idonie, iodate, salinity) once I'm satisfied I wait till my lights are off( not too long before slight PH drop) I siphon out the waste and pump in the new water takes about 20 mins total. I havent noticed any stress to my corals. I have one pocillaphora that gets partially exposed, shows no sign of stress.
following day i make sure I change my filter socks.
not sure what or how I'm going to switch everything over from my 180 to the 450 when the time comes?I guess that will be an interesting thread topic when the time comes

 

[FastUno]

Good point. I bet what ever you do should be fine, as long as you are consistant. So many reefers have so many different ways of doing water changes & most report good results.

A 50% water change will bring your system closer to the make up of your salt mix & each subsequent change will be better tolerated. This is regardless if the water change in itself was beneficial or not.

I know this one guy on RC who siphons old water out via air line tubing & at the same time siphons water back in. Weird way of doing this & seems very wasteful, but it works for him.

 

[Reef Guy]

what? you guys change your water?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

what? you guys change your water?

Dude I know a guy with a 130 gal tank that only tops off never does a water change and swears by it. I think he is nuts but he doesn't believe in it. When he tells people this they are enraged. At the LFS we have all had to check out his tank. Nothing special everything looks ok but I think he would do better if he did change some water every month.

 

[NYPDFrogman]

what? you guys change your water?

lol
dont laugh I didnt change water in my 65 for about 5 months while I was moving and everything did well. I have a large fish population now so I am very diligent and my corals have never done better! fish seem happy too

 

[FastUno]

I know another reefer here on MR who had multiple tanks linked together to form something over 1000g. He professed not to do any water changes & only to top off & actually remove some water out to add more RO/DI (due to Alk & CA additions).

This person was able to keep everything & anything. His nitrate levels were about 40ppm when I tested with my salifert kit.

 

[beyondnp]

I did a 75 gallon water change twice on my 92 gallon when I had algae blooms and the only way to get control of it was to scrub my rocks with a razor to try to remove as much as possible... that was a few years ago... since then, i have found taking changing out 10% of my water every 2 weeks plus top off has been sufficient and allows me to better control any potential imbalance.

Are there any corals out there that should never be exposed to air, I was told inverts and sponges are examples of this but not sure if it is true?

 

[ShaunW]

Are there any corals out there that should never be exposed to air, I was told inverts and sponges are examples of this but not sure if it is true?

The major difference between life and death of the corals that is exposed is "did it dry out". I have allowed sponges to be exposed to air many times, but not dry out, without having any loss to the sponge. Inverts are the same. However, different species have different responses to air exposure, so you need to understand the nature and responses of the different corals that are under your care. Never allow a coral to dry out.

As for clean fresh salt water that is phosphate and nitrate free having an bad/disasterious effect on the health of corals inside the "toxic waste container" we call an aquarium, I just don't see it. Really, if the salt is made correctly what true chemical differences are we talking about between the incoming salt and the outgoing salt that could influence the tank in a bad way?

 

[ShaunW]

Answering my own question, assuming a completely dissolved salt mixture following the salt manufactures instructions. The big three that must be the same between incoming and outgoing water:
1. Salinity (must be the same).
2. Temperature (must be the same within a couple of degrees or two).
3. Dissolved oxygen content (the water must be aerated).

Please add any other components you think I missed.

Differences between the two waters:
1. Nitrate (higher in the tank water).
2. Phosphate (higher in the tank water).
3. Dissolved organic waste (higher in the tank water).
4. Reduction of trace elements (lower in the tank water).

 

[yessongs]

pH?..

 

[ShaunW]

pH?..

It would be impossible to adjust properly. All salt mixes are buffered solutions, meaning that they are designed to be a specific pH and bounce back to that pH if any acid or base is added.

If you remember basic chemistry in high school, you can add hydrochloric acid to a buffered solution in very large amounts without any pH fluctuations. Once the buffering capacity of the solution is saturated/exhausted then the pH will change.

That is why Mg is so important in salt water solutions, it is one of the primary buffers.

Salt manufacturers have set the pH of their salt and they are all within a similar range. Additionally, living creatures are themselves buffered to a physiologic pH of 7.0 (most creatures) and are able to withstand slight pH differences without any problem, i.e. their intrinsic buffering capacity allows them to be somewhat impervious to local pH differences.

 

[yessongs]

Shaun, i was wondering about the tank water. Sometimes the pH drops. In a large water should you try to raise the tank pH before the water change?

 

[ShaunW]

What pH drop are you taking about, how much?

 

[DRZL]

I added ALK before on this thread, as I know from personal experience that SPS hate ALK fluctations, especially in the form of WC

for example my WC ALK is usually 11 but one time my tank dropped to around 6 and I did a WC. Bad Idea, ALK BURN!, it sucked very little, PE for 2 wks after that, and my SPS looked like crap

 

[yessongs]

What pH drop are you taking about, how much?

This was a few years ago. And a poor test kit that the colors were just a shade off, i could not tell if it was 7.6 or 8.0 +-
The problem.. my shrimp would molt after a 25% water change.
I think it had to do with salinity, i was using a hydrometer at the time.

 

[beyondnp]

The major difference between life and death of the corals that is exposed is "did it dry out". I have allowed sponges to be exposed to air many times, but not dry out, without having any loss to the sponge. Inverts are the same. However, different species have different responses to air exposure, so you need to understand the nature and responses of the different corals that are under your care. Never allow a coral to dry out.

As for clean fresh salt water that is phosphate and nitrate free having an bad/disasterious effect on the health of corals inside the "toxic waste container" we call an aquarium, I just don't see it. Really, if the salt is made correctly what true chemical differences are we talking about between the incoming salt and the outgoing salt that could influence the tank in a bad way?

Your of course correct, but was curious if there was any general rule of thumb as to the amount of time you could keep corals exposed to air... ie 30 seconds versus 5 minutes... etc...

 

[ShaunW]

As minimal as possible, which I understand is not the answer you are looking for, .

My best guess would be no longer than 10 minutes to be completely safe. Obviously the longer you expose the corals the greater the mortality rate. But as an example, when I converted to BB I had mushrooms and starpolyps that were covering my tanks walls exposed to air/dried out over the course of 2 hours without any adverse effects. However, while one frilly mushroom lived another that was right next to it died! Go figure.

Zoanthids can handle long durations without water. SPS probably can also handle more time than I would like to experiment with. Soft corals like mushrooms, leathers (the sliming corals), gorgonians, and non retractable LPS would be the most susceptible IMO and experience.

 

[ShaunW]

This was a few years ago. And a poor test kit that the colors were just a shade off, i could not tell if it was 7.6 or 8.0 +-
The problem.. my shrimp would molt after a 25% water change.
I think it had to do with salinity, i was using a hydrometer at the time.

If it was 7.6 then "YES" I would adjust the pH to the incomming waters pH. pH 8.0 I would be slightly less concerned with, depending on the volume of water being changed.