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ryangrieder

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Northern Jersey
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i got a 72 bow. been running for 3 years about. i have an ro unit that is reading 0 tds and when i test water its perfect. my nitrates have been very high ever since i set it up. i dont think its right but the api nitrate test kit says 160-180 and salifert says 100+ and red sea says 100+ and elios or how ever you spell it says 120+ so i know its high. nothing ever harmed from it. corals great ect. i have done about 150g worth of water changed within 2-3 months of ro water and my nitrates have never even moved yet. still high. i dont want to do too many water changes at once and spike or mess up my bio load but what else could be going wrong or what im i doing wrong? i barely feed them anymore. tank is not over stocked. my algae problem is completely gone. all other peramaters says great. cal. mag. amm. nitrite, dkh, phosphate, ect... whats going on. shouldn't it have moved a LITTLE bit? i mean my water looks better since i have used it. coraline algae is blooming better then ever. corals happy, fish are nice and fat and active... whats going on?
 

KathyC

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Technically 150 g over 2 -3 months is not a lot of water changed when you are trying to lower such a high number so I'm not surprised they haven't come down. The water changes would need to be large and frequent to make much of an impact.

Good chance you have something in there you are overlooking that is causing the nitrates to be so high..filter socks, not changed often enough, some other filter material, possibly a wet dry,,,we'd need to know more about your system.
How old is the sandbed? Fuge? Does it have a sandbed - how deep?
 

ryangrieder

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oh i thought i was doing too much of a water change at once. how much do you reccomend? my sump is simple. it starts in a 10g fuge that over flows into a pad, then alot of lr, skimmer, uv, reactor and thats it. sand bed every year i tank around 40-50% out and put new live sand. maybe an inch and a half. pads replaced every couple months, but there is only 1 or 2.

how much of a water change would you say is safe enough to not hurt anything?
 

Dre

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oh i thought i was doing too much of a water change at once. how much do you reccomend? my sump is simple. it starts in a 10g fuge that over flows into a pad, then alot of lr, skimmer, uv, reactor and thats it. sand bed every year i tank around 40-50% out and put new live sand. maybe an inch and a half. pads replaced every couple months, but there is only 1 or 2.

how much of a water change would you say is safe enough to not hurt anything?
Leave the sand bed alone.Put some cheato. in the refuge.Rinse the pads weekly not monthly with tank water.You can make a 50% water change now and 20% every 2 weeks there after .I not saying you will get a 0 nitrate reading but you will get it at an acceptable range with practice over time.
 

SevTT

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I second the chaeto recommendation. You could also use a chunk of rock covered in hair algae. Chuck either in your fuge and light 'em opposite your DT.
 

SevTT

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Leave the sand bed alone.Put some cheato. in the refuge.Rinse the pads weekly not monthly with tank water.You can make a 50% water change now and 20% every 2 weeks there after .I not saying you will get a 0 nitrate reading but you will get it at an acceptable range with practice over time.


Eeh, if nothing in the tank is looking stressed, I don't recommend a 50% WC all at once. Do two changes of like 25% a few days apart. Yeah, slightly less efficient, but there's no reason to stress everything in the tank out.

You could also get one of the popular resin-based nitrate removers like purigen or whatever to get your nitrates down so that you can manage them. These generally do work very well but are somewhat expensive for long-term use.
 

KathyC

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oh i thought i was doing too much of a water change at once. how much do you reccomend? my sump is simple. it starts in a 10g fuge that over flows into a pad, then alot of lr, skimmer, uv, reactor and thats it. sand bed every year i tank around 40-50% out and put new live sand. maybe an inch and a half. pads replaced every couple months, but there is only 1 or 2.

how much of a water change would you say is safe enough to not hurt anything?

What kind of pad?
You need to rinse that out every day or two.
It is doing the same thing a dirty filter sock will do - trap nitrates :(

One other thing - if the water in your tank is in good shape (not aimed at the OP here), there is no reason why you can't make any sort of large water change. Supposedly when we change water we are doing so to replace the minor elements that are in our salt (that get used up). There should be nothing drastic that happens when we do a water change, whether it be small or huge as our water should not have degraded to a point so low that it is a drastic change.

If your water is not in good shape, then you should be doing something to correct that and thereby making your parameters stable, otherwise you have a tank on the edge of trouble.
 

reseter5

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your rack and sand is where your biological comes from so do a big water change... i have done close too 100% once with no loss.. 50 % would knock your nitrates down by half.. then get some nitrate lock or something to pull the rest out ... and chaeto... very good for nitrates and phosphates...
 

ryangrieder

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thanks all for the responces, to answer a few of you...

dre, i have alot of cheeto. before i only had some grape calerpa and halmedia. i recently took it all out and give it to my friend and got a big portion of cheeto about a month ago. it is growing like crazy. i have a 10g fuge with two pcs on it, 50/50s around 30watt. and ill try the pad thing more frequently. thanks

Cali Reef yes i tested the ro water and its perfect. 0 amm, nitrite, and nitrate. my tds on the unit is 0.

SevTT that is kind of what i am doing, smaller water changes every few days so i dont stress anything out but my fish and corals have been in there for years and use to change so im thinking maybe ill do a little bit more then i use to instead of 25%. and i do already use purigen and it does nothing. i picked up a nitrate lock by PURA. i know it does not remove nitrates but it is suppost to make it so it does not raise. i am going to wait til its alot lower before i put that media in.

KathyC, i use the coralife pad. half blue half white. i have like 25 foot roll so i will try every day to two days rinse it. would it be better to rinse it or just put a new one in since i have so much? the tank looks awesome and no one looks bad so i know its all fine. how much of a water change do you suggest?

DHaut, tests kits are 3 months old.

resester5, i dont know about close to 100% water change. that would scare me.

i got alot of different suggestions of how much water to change on different amount of days. what would u say is the best to lower it? and also since the fish and corals are so use to high nitrate, lowering it too quickly would not do anything right? i know lowering and raising other levels are not good. what about nitrate? like if i did do a huge water change or something.
 
Last edited:

KathyC

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If you have a bunch of it, then change it out, but I'd keep the portions you take out, may as well rinse them out & reuse them going forward.

I wish I could find the chart I've seen on water changes and what percentage of water you are REALLY changing if you do small amounts.
Best I can say (without locvating it) is if you do small changes, each time you do one, you are also taking out a percentage of the new water you just put in...so you make little progress with them.

I would not try and adjust any other parameters except the nitrates at this point.
 

Keith P

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Great Neck, NY
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I wish I could find the chart I've seen on water changes and what percentage of water you are REALLY changing if you do small amounts.
Best I can say (without locvating it) is if you do small changes, each time you do one, you are also taking out a percentage of the new water you just put in...so you make little progress with them.


Kathy, this site has the charts:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
Scroll down to Size of Water Changes: A General Case


Also, here is a calculator:
http://www.theaquatools.com/water-changes-calculator
 

Dre

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Leave the sand bed alone.Put some cheato. in the refuge.Rinse the pads weekly not monthly with tank water.You can make a 50% water change now and 20% every 2 weeks there after .I not saying you will get a 0 nitrate reading but you will get it at an acceptable range with practice over time.
Nitrate isn't easy to keep at 0 .Try to find the source as well because all the water change in the world will be in vain.If your animals are doing well don't lose too much sleep over it.Ask everyone to test for Nitrate you'll be surprised at the results.
 

ryangrieder

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Northern Jersey
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yeah i know alot of people with perfect nitrates but alot of with some, if not alot of nitrates. everyone tells me im crazy and my tank is going to crash if i dont fix it asap. i dont know what they are talking about seeing my tank has been perfect, except this crap nitrate problem.

i think im just going to do large water changes, but kind of spaced out. thanks for that chart, i read the whole thing and im going to take there advice. kind of what kathyc said. if i keep doing small water changes alot im taking the same water i just put in and taking it out. im thinking maybe 40 gallons every 2 weeks or so. we will see how it goes. if this dont work then screw it. everyone says ro is the best and thats why i got a unit. so if this does not work and i consectivly do do the water changes then i think im just going to ignore the fact that nitrates are present im my tank.

thank you everyone
 

Awibrandy

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Far Rockaway
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Ryan, how long ago did you set up this tank?
What water did you use to fill it up, and top off before you got the RO unit?
How long has it been since you began using RO water?
Where did your lr & sand come from?
What are you feeding?
Are you rinsing the food?
What are you adding as far as additives are concerned?
What does your fuge consist of?
Why are you using the filter pads?
 

ryangrieder

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Northern Jersey
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my tank started in a 55g and had it for 2 years in that. then it upgraded into the 72 bow for about 3 years. so if you would considder one span of it then 5 years. i only considder it 3 becausei used new sand and obviously more water.

i was using normal water when i origionally set it up from which was well water. then when i switched into the 72g i started using deer park water that i bought from a hardware company down the road from me and did water changes and top off with. when i tested both water elements it says 0 nitrate.

i started using my ro unit about 3 months ago.

my sand is the ocean direct from caribsea and my lr came from a lfs, a few friends, online, and a fellow mr what i bought from. my rock was pretty simple. tonga plate, kupang and premimum fugi. very clean looking and before i got all my rock i had it running in a garbage can for a week with skimmer, heater, powerhead and about 50 red leg hermit and 10 holloween hermits.

my fish i feed hikari mysis shrimp and san fransisco bay plankton. i soak my food in my tank water, once its unfrozen i pour it into a net and dispose of the water it sat in and refill a cup of water and put the food into that water and feed. id say they eat 3 times a day in small doses of food. just enough so its all gone within 2 minutes about. my corals i feed marine snow, phytoplankton, and cyclops every few days.

for additives i dose brightwell kalk in a kent drip bucket. refill it once a week. every now and then some kent iodine. use to do purple up but stopped awhile back. seachem fussion 1 and fussion 2. i dont dose these chemicals alot though, only every now and then if my water parameters go down in cal, mag, dkh ect. but my levels tend to stay good with that.

my fuge right now consists of like 4 pounds of rock, two giant handfulls of cheeto with alot of critters. there is enough so that you cannot even see the other side of the fuge. there is also some grape calerpa, halmedia, and some clove looking things. like i said though mostly cheeto from my friends 250g tank that is amazing so i know the cheeto was good. very viverent green and grows like crazy. i already have to trim some down because it is coming out of the water now.

why im using the pads? well i use it just to polish the water and take out any extra food or waste.

and no i dont have a canister filter. i use to years ago on my smaller 30g tank and found out the hard way that that is a nitrate factory.

i also have a biocube that is all pure sea water that i bought and use the ro water for water changes and top off and that has 0 nitrates. its just this darn 72g
 

greggnyce

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Bellport, NY
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You should rinse the food with ro water before feeding. Also, you mentioned you had alot of live rock in your sump. Is there alot of detritus under hem or on them? If the flow through your sunp is not strong enough, alot of waste can be trapped on and under those rocks.
 

ryangrieder

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Northern Jersey
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i do have alot of rock but i also have about 25-30 hermit crabs in my sump and a snowflake eel that sturs everything up all the time. if i move any rocks around you never see debree floating around. the flow is pretty good in my sump. i will try the ro with my food though, thanks
 

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