Any benefits of a Phosban Reactor

[jawwad2004]

Hey guys, Im seriously thinking about getting a phosban reactor. Do you guys think its really worth getting one or its just useless equipment? Any pros and cons? Which company makes the best phosban reactor?

 

[[JWS]wasabi]

2 little fishies makes em, they are pretty cheap so its not a huge investment, I run one with carbon and one with phosban. I usually keep them running constantly with a low flow pump.
I like em, they are simple and clean, I say go for it.

 

[alrha]

kent marine also makes one (but i think the reviews like the 2 little fishies better). Deltec makes one as well, but that is A LOT more money.
for the cost, you really cant go wrong, it is probably one of the best ways to run media on your tank.

 

[jawwad2004]

I was reading the product description and it says max flow with 150grams of phosban media should is 80gph, thats ridiculously slow! I wanted to use something like a maxi jet 400 rated @ 106 gph.

 

[pecan2phat]

The Phosban reactor comes with a ball valve so that you can control the flow.
FWIW, Maxi-Jet 400 is the preferred powerhead to run the reactor with, you just need to close the ball valve a bit to lower the flow.
Phosban works best when the media is just slightly tumbling in the reactor.

 

[jhale]

I was reading the product description and it says max flow with 150grams of phosban media should is 80gph, thats ridiculously slow! I wanted to use something like a maxi jet 400 rated @ 106 gph.

you need to do more reading. phosban works at a low turnover rate. if it's subjected to high flow it disintegrates and enters the water column, which is then really bad for the health of the coral. Too much iron in the water will end up killing the coral.
I used the two little fishies brand reactor and had good results with phosban. I had high Po4 from some old rock that had been soaked in tap water for six years, as it released Po4 the phosban was able to absorb it and keep it under control.

 

[jawwad2004]

you need to do more reading. phosban works at a low turnover rate. if it's subjected to high flow it disintegrates and enters the water column, which is then really bad for the health of the coral. Too much iron in the water will end up killing the coral.
I used the two little fishies brand reactor and had good results with phosban. I had high Po4 from some old rock that had been soaked in tap water for six years, as it released Po4 the phosban was able to absorb it and keep it under control.

So with the ball valve, for me to get best results, I would have to lower the flow to maybe live 75 gph? John, do you still use your reactor, or it was only when u put that old rock in?

 

[jhale]

yes, you need the ball valve to dial down the flow.

only the top 1/4" of the phosban is supposed to be moving.

I took it off line, but after taking a Po4 reading it has crept back up, so I ordered another three jars of phosban, I'll set it back up later this week.

 

[DRZL]

how about finding the reason for your p04 and taking care of it from the root. IMO phosban's are band-aids, sometimes theyre helpful like jhale use of tap water, but rock cooking, bigger skimmer, detritus removal will take care of that more long term.

FWIW I had to take one of my MJ1200 (BB blaster) off the main tank for my new c02 feed. In a week that crapped built up was enugh that my SPS starting browning. I couldve bought phosban but what good would it have done it really?

I have done a WC and replaced my sweeper MJ1200 everything is looking right again.

my .02

 

[DRZL]

also think of it this way, the money you were gonna use for the reactor, pump, media could be better suited to buy that new tunze skimmer thats all the rage right now ...lol

 

[jawwad2004]

Well I have an aquac ev 120 running, which I think is pretty effecient, however its very sensitive, and I am seriously thinking about a new skimmer. Maybe even a deltec rated for like a 150 -200 gallon tank. Even if the deltec is a load of money, as long as it prevents headaches, I think its worth it.

 

[pecan2phat]

also think of it this way, the money you were gonna use for the reactor, pump, media could be better suited to buy that new tunze skimmer thats all the rage right now ...lol

Reactor - $35
Media - $13
Pump - $14

DOC Tunze - $427

:scratchch

 

[cali_reef]

how about finding the reason for your p04 and taking care of it from the root. my .02

How do you remove Po4 from fish food? most salt? all carbon sold for aquarium use?

 

[DRZL]

How do you remove Po4 from fish food? most salt? all carbon sold for aquarium use?

At low trace levels your corals do it for you, the more corals you have the more they absorb its essential to all stonies

why do you think all reactor media has trace levels of p04? its basically chopped up coral skeletons.

The idea is to keep it low and not have decaying sh!t sinks somewhere, where theres is too much to absorb you have problems

theres numerous threads on RC about lightening of corals/slowing down of growth because of super low levels of p04,

remedy: overfeed... mmmm phosphatey!
:knockedou

 

[DRZL]

Reactor - $35
Media - $13
Pump - $14

DOC Tunze - $427

:scratchch

lol...wiseguy ...i forgot "towards" a new tunze skimmer...you gotta start somewhere right?


words of wisdom:
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Give a man a fish tank and he'll starve himself saving up for a new skimmer.

 

[cali_reef]

At low trace levels your corals do it for you, the more corals you have the more they absorb its essential to all stonies

why do you think all reactor media has trace levels of p04? its basically chopped up coral skeletons.

The idea is to keep it low and not have decaying sh!t sinks somewhere, where theres is too much to absorb you have problems

theres numerous threads on RC about lightening of corals/slowing down of growth because of super low levels of p04,

remedy: overfeed... mmmm phosphatey!
:knockedou

I am not sure how much does carbon, fish food and salt leach out but I know they do contain PO4 and does accumulate over time. I didn't ask about reactor media but if the Ca reactor media contains the same proportional amount of PO4 as the remaining elements for uptake by the growing coral, I can't see how the growing coral will take on\remove additional PO4 from other sources?



Under your theory, the ?little? additional PO4 will be consumed by the coral them selves? How much coral does one need to achieve that equilibrium when the fish are fed daily, 10% water change a week, and carbon is used in the system?

phosban's are band-aids, sometimes theyre helpful like jhale use of tap water, but rock cooking, bigger skimmer, detritus removal will take care of that more long term.

I don?t think using phosban to remove phosphate is a ?band-aid?, we change water, run a big skimmer, add trace elements, and run Ca reactor to correct what our tank is lacking, how are they different than running a specific filter media to remove an unwanted water element? They are all band-aids unless you can have an open system with an unlimited exchange of fresh natural sea water.

 

[alrha]

i agree. i dont see anything wrong with running media to improve water quality.

 

[DRZL]

To reiterate what I was saying, Randy states in the article, about the problems of too low phos being a problem. in my case indirectly using to compare w/ BB and some people's lightening, slow growth, and RTN'ing in the lack of phos

" On the other side of the issue are those tanks without fish. Since phosphorus is required for growing tissue, it is mandatory that there be some phosphorus source for corals growing in a reef tank. Finding a source is trivial if there are fish in the tank that require feeding, but in tanks without fish, reef keepers must somehow add phosphorus. The answer to this question is rather easy: either add fish food even though there are no fish, or add a source of phosphorus such as a plant fertilizer (and don?t forget about a source of nitrogen as well)." http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

However, my main point is not that Phos reactors dont work, but that they do, (sometimes at the expense of disrupting trace elements found in water by attaching to iron based p04 media) but they can be used for the wrong reasons.

If you have phos problems something is up. I use carbon, feed moderately, have a sh!tload of snails crapping all the time. I have phosphate sources too!, however I dont have Green algae. So something is at work that neither a skimmer nor my monthly WC arent doing. (I cant find the article, but im on it when I get home soon enough) This is where I'm sure that my corals are actuall absorbing it directly as I can't test for it really >0.002 but I know its there.

Of course I attribute the fact that I dont have residual builtup p04 problems anymore due to my BB status. IMO best thing I ever did!, but the p04 that cali-reef is talking about are negligable and might even be a reason my corals dont lighten.

The problem is therefore excess!

So my theory is that if you have levels of p04 higher than youd like its becuase of something other than the negligable levels that are found ( all other things being low or close to nonexistant) in the food(not overfed), CR media, carbon.
This is where I disagree w/ the reason of phosban use. Wouldnt it be better to find the BIGGEST reason for your p04 and removing it? There as many or more people that dont use phosban than do and theyre tanks look healthy. I think in the end its all about, if possible, physical removal than repetitive filtration.

i agree. i dont see anything wrong with running media to improve water quality.

but could it be at the expense of being lazy and really figuring out whats going on?

is it the chicken or the egg?

 

[DRZL]

BTW to point out what jhale said about his tap water (high p04 source) in his rocks

"Likewise, phosphate can precipitate onto the surface of calcium carbonate, such as onto live rock and sand. The absorption of phosphate from seawater onto aragonite is pH dependent, with the maximum binding taking place around pH 8.4 and with less binding at lower and higher pH values. If the calcium carbonate crystal is static (not growing), then this process is reversible, and the aragonite can act as a reservoir for phosphate. This reservoir can make it difficult to completely remove excess phosphate from a tank that has experienced very high phosphate levels, and may permit algae to continue to thrive despite cutting off all external phosphate sources. In such cases, removal of the substrate may even be required."
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

it is a very real problem, and again it was an external factor that made this problem (using tap water) not a closed aquaria problem, he had 2 options phosban or a 2-3 mth "cooking" period. Both work, i prefer cooking, but the point is there is his reason for p04, and its the only time I personally FWIW would recommend phosban until it all leaches out (which can take several years depending).

Otherwise its a band-aid buddy! :afro: