Upgrading from 70 gallon to 105 rimless

[ivandrago]

Hi Good morning reefers

I had a question so i will be upgrading from my 70 Gallon Oceanic Tech tank to 105 Deep Blue Aquatics 105 gallon. My main question is will i need to cycle the new tank or i can use the water that is currently in the 70 gallon and just transfer everything to the new 105 gallon tank.

 

[MatthewScars]

105 gallon or 150 gallon? DB doesnt make a 105g tank, so Ill assume 150.

Use new sand, but the same rocks and same water. Then fill the rest of the tank with water. If you have the same bio load, i dont see it cycling too much. But it will slightly assuming you are adding more rock.

 

[KathyC]

Are you adding additional rock to the new tank? If so, is it live already?

Generally you can simply switch everything over to the new tank without having to go through a cycle. DO keep your eye on your parameters to be sure the ammonia or nitrites don't spike and take corrective action if they do (water change).

You might want to change out half (or more)of your water during the switch (it depends on how much crud might be under the rocks in the current tank). The water itself contains little bacteria compared to the rock/sand, so you won't lose much bacteria by using new water.

 

[ivandrago]

the aquarium is a Deep sea aquatics my mistake, this si the link http://www.saltwateraquarium.com/deep-sea-aquatics-105-gallon-neo-series-rimless-glass-aquarium.html

i will be using everything i currently have in my 70 i have 100 pounds of rock and about 8 fish and a few soft corals. I want to do this as careful as possible and not damage my reef, i will not add more rock until maybe later if i see that it wont be enough.

Why would i use new sand? what is wrong with the old sand?

 

[ivandrago]

why wouldn't i be able to use the same sand?

 

[MatthewScars]

why wouldn't i be able to use the same sand?

Sand gets poo matted down under/in it. You REALLY dont want that stuff coming up in a new tank. It could spike your params hard or crash the tank.

CAN you do it, sure. SHOULD you do it, no.

 

[ivandrago]

but i can def take the tank water from the old tank and transfer it to the new one with out cycling it?

 

[Reefcowboy]

I wouldnt transfer the fish yet... Or you will start the new tank with a headache. I would either sell the fish or take it to a store and ask if they can keep it in a separate tank for you for a few weeks. Reason?

Regardless of the LR and water you transfer, the tank will go through a cycle. If it is a mini cycle, it will depend on the system. It could be 1, 2 weeks, maybe less...The issue is, adding all 8 fish which is quite a bioload, is a big load for the newly set up, yet uncycled system.
Chances are, amonia will rise, nitrates... It will happen. Its a risk you will take. If nitrates rise for long during this, you run the risk of fish getting stressed and ich right from the go.
Softies should be ok. Go to a LFS, explain the upgrade, and maybe offer to pay them to keep your fish there and slowly bring them back to the tank, similarly like you would do when first setting up a new tank.

 

[ivandrago]

but if its a stable set up right now and the water is stable with the bio load, would it be the same in the new tank

 

[Reefcowboy]

but if its a stable set up right now and the water is stable with the bio load, would it be the same in the new tank

No, absolutely not. Every tank is different. When you add new sand, there will be different bacteria strands in there from the ones in your tank. It will take time for them to stabilize and colonize the new, larger set up.
Trust me, if you rush through this step with the fish, you will fall into a trap.
Have patience and it will pay off in the long run.

If that method worked, no one would ever have to go through cycling again. I would keep moving my sand, water and fishes from one set up to the next and cycling would not ever be needed, since the previous system was stable...

 

[MatthewScars]

Reason?

I disagree.

If he adds no new rock and just new sand, it would barely if anything at all cycle. And if it does, he can just do water changes to keep the params stable during it. you could even add extra bacteria if you really wanted.

Selling all of his fish/coral or removing them is silly. He has 100+ pounds of mature live rock, that is plenty to start with in a 105g system.

 

[Reefcowboy]

I disagree.

If he adds no new rock and just new sand, it would barely if anything at all cycle. And if it does, he can just do water changes to keep the params stable during it. you could even add extra bacteria if you really wanted.

Selling all of his fish/coral or removing them is silly. He has 100+ pounds of mature live rock, that is plenty to start with in a 105g system.

So you are saying all LR are colonized by the same bacteria? Also why would he do WCs during cycle? That would make things slower. I read a big article about strands of bacteria on newly set ups, and different bacteria impact differently nitrification speed(cycle). If only adding LR to a system would guarantee its stability and cycling, no one should need to ever wait. LR does provide more stability AFTER the tank has cycled and bacteria has properly populated the tank.

 

[ivandrago]

but i did here that also from other people that i should cycle the new tank all over again. the thing is that i am trying to sell my 70 gallon and i need to move it from the space thats where the new tank will go, so i'm trying to do this the right way and not kill what i have so far.

 

[MatthewScars]

It will take time for them to stabilize and colonize the new, larger set up.

So you are telling me if I have 70g tank (lets say bare bottom for discussion purposes) with 100 pounds of mature LR and 8 fish - that if I literally use all the water in the old tank and transfer the rock immediately from 70g tank to 105g tank and add 30 gallons of water my bacteria will just all die/vanish? or not be 'established' anymore because I added 30g of water to the system...?

All you are doing is adding 35g of water. How will the bacteria NOT be already established to the levels of taking care of 8 fish?

Id love to hear your logic on this one.

 

[Reefcowboy]

So you are telling me if I have 70g tank (lets say bare bottom for discussion purposes) with 100 pounds of mature LR and 8 fish - that if I literally use all the water in the old tank and transfer the rock immediately from 70g tank to 105g tank and add 30 gallons of water my bacteria will just all die/vanish? or not be 'established' anymore because I added 30g of water to the system...?

All you are doing is adding 35g of water. How will the bacteria NOT be already established to the levels of taking care of 8 fish?

Id love to hear your logic on this one.

Very simple. If you transfer ALL that is in the old tank to a bare bottom, acrylic, brute garbage can, anything you want tank, and add water, the tank will go through a cycle. How long of a cycle? I cant tell, and i wrote that in the previous post. Would the baceria die(your question), vanish? I dont know where you got this from, i just said it will take time to populate the new system. If you add new sand, or more live rock, more of a chance of a new system set up syndrome, because in order to achieve equilibrium, more things will come to play.
Now to the point i was trying to make....
Adding fish will be the issue. Softies would not be harmed i think, but if you add 8 fish at once thinking you have enough LR and can do water changes to remedy the stress, you are in for issues.

 

[Reefcowboy]

but i did here that also from other people that i should cycle the new tank all over again. the thing is that i am trying to sell my 70 gallon and i need to move it from the space thats where the new tank will go, so i'm trying to do this the right way and not kill what i have so far.

Whoever told you this, knows what they are saying. You WILL go trough a small cycle. The best thing is to take all steps slow and dont try to make magic adding LR, bacteria or WCs. Just Wait and do not load up all the fish at once

 

[albano]

I disagree.

If he adds no new rock and just new sand, it would barely if anything at all cycle. And if it does, he can just do water changes to keep the params stable during it. you could even add extra bacteria if you really wanted.

Selling all of his fish/coral or removing them is silly. He has 100+ pounds of mature live rock, that is plenty to start with in a 105g system.

+1... I've done this a million times*


*not actual count

 

[ivandrago]

done what exactly move everything from one tank to another and everything was fine.

 

[KathyC]

As I suggested earlier in this thread - just move what you have to the new tank and keep your eye on the parameters. It has been done countless times here (and I've also done it myself) with no issue.
As long as your current system is stable - there is plenty of bacteria in your live rock to handle the bacteria from your current fish/bioload. Bacteria multiplies very quickly. I would not be suggesting this unless I had first hand experience with it and knew it to be a successful way to switch tanks.

Just make sure you rock stays in submerged at all times (have plenty of extra made up SW handy during the change). If you do this, you have nothing to worry about.

I would also probably change the sand - keep one cup of your old sand and add that to the new tank to seed the new sand.
You will see as you are tanking our your L/R that you are raising some ugly dust 'clouds' of crud. You don't want to move that to your new tank.

Do NOT add any of those 'instant cycling' products - they all contains a large amount of nitrites - and you definitely do not want to add additional nitrites to your tank!

The idea of re-homing your fish at a LFS (where the water parameters are VERY different from your current system) is a poor one imo and will cause your fish a lot of stress.

It's not like you are going from a 29G cube to a 180 here. Your difference is a mere 35G...and that is in water alone...which hardly has ANY bacteria in it...

 

[albano]

done what exactly move everything from one tank to another and everything was fine.

Yes, sir!