becoming a importer?i have a list of indonesian contacts&amp

[flameangel1]

Glenn,
I do agree with much of what you said, and no- one should never fuss at some ones ignorance.
Only when one can see that we are banging our heads against the wall and accomplishing nothing.
It is the nature of humans to fight back when attacked though.

I just feel like specialization intimidates people ( I know it did me).

IMO one does not go to a GP when one needs heart surgery. :wink:
And this may only be my way of thinking also.
Actually, the more we know, the more we know we do NOT know.
Specializing in a certain field gives one far more indepth knowledge.
Generalized here, please do not take offence.
But then again, I would research that cardiologist also- :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

IMO one does not go to a GP when one needs heart surgery

But a good GP often makes a cardiologist unneccessary.

 

[flameangel1]

Glenn,
if I might ask, why did you or would someone be intimidated by a specialist ??
Do not understand this and would like to see it from the other side.
I read the books and found those who I thought were the best and then went straight to the authors for the Q&A personally, when I wanted to learn at the beginning. To me, this is natural.

This has gotten way off topic, but others may find it interesting also.
If not, hopefully Chucker will move it to the sump.

 

[Anonymous]

It just all seemed so complicated. The lighting, the protein skimmer (what the heck does that mean to a newbie??), "live" rock. I guess it was the fact that all the other customer's seemed to know so much more than I did that I had the impression that I would be wasting their time with my stupid questions. I know better now, but that's how I felt at the time. Without anything familiar (coming from freshwater), it all just seemed so far out of my league. I think people tend to think it's more complicated than it actually is and not the other way around. Had I known that reef keeping can be fairly simple it would have been a lot better.

Glenn

 

[dizzy]

Wow eddie has eight pages of information to help him with his new business and I have a better understanding of why AMDA never worked.

No offense to Rover, Jenn, or Flameangel. It sounds like you all do a great job. Personally I'm a little burnt out. This industry sort of sucks the life out of you. Maybe the 70-80 hour work-weeks have something to do with it. I don't really know which is worse, dealing with the public or dealing with employees.

Phillyboy you sound a little like Clinton with his didn't inhale. You can come clean with us, were all friends.

 

[flameangel1]

AAAHHH !! That makes sense, thanks.
What I do to get around that is, I have a small 20 gallon full reef tank directly inside the door.
Basic system and open so it is easy to see each part. Very easy to explain what each part is and what it does.
And I also am very good at reading body language, so have a fair idea of how to do the explaining part without intimidating , or embarrassing people.

Reading body language makes a big difference in how to make someone feel "at home" and comfortable about asking questions and absorbing the information. One can excite them about this hobby easily also.
Each person is different and I have less than 2 minutes when they walk in the door to find a rapport with them.

 

[flameangel1]

apologize for two in a row but,

It just all seemed so complicated. The lighting, the protein skimmer (what the heck does that mean to a newbie??),

The first thing the GP, Cardiologist or reef specialist does is to make the client feel comfortable.
The next thing is to make things very simple to get the client feeling secure in their ability to handle it.
Do not overwhelm anyone with information they do not need immediately.
Skimmers/lighting etc come AFTER basic understanding of water quality and how to get it. In other words, take it one step at a time, and keep the customer confident and comfortable.
I want the customer to KNOW the why and how of everything and they really do learn this way.
Does this make sense??

 

[Phillyboy]

i just had the whole evening out to reflect, and got a chance to reread some of this thread tonight.

I'd just like to apologize to Jenn and Judy for the abbrasiveness of some of my statements. I'm not known for my sugar coating.

In fact I've learned alot from this thread. I think I may need to rethink my generalizations about the retail sector, and be more understanding. Guess this is another reason why this open exchange is so valuable.

 

[eddie]

"no one should fuss at ignorance"

isnt there a big dif between the word ignorant & nieve

FWIW

a ignorant person probably would never learn but a nieve person still has the ability

 

[eddie]

well I looked it up in the dictonary I guess they are the same words about

just thought I'd add though that most sucessful reefers I met are addicted (for lack of a better word)

and it does'nt take them long to become that way

btw the closest LFS to me that is worth going to is Fish World in Raleigh NC(Jeff Vote) or Marine Ecosytems in Greensborough(Rich King) 2 hours away so..the intrenet is priceless to me

 

[Anonymous]

I want the customer to KNOW the why and how of everything and they really do learn this way.
Does this make sense??

Of course. I don't have a problem with a specialized reef only store as long as they have the right approach. It's just easy for them to become a little exclusive club that only the "advanced aquarist" feels comfortable at. I'm sure that are a lot of good specialty shops out there. There was one around here for a while (that has since gone out of business) that I felt comfortable referring people to. My main point is when people specialize to the point that they don't make any money either.

Glenn

 

[JennM]

My main point is when people specialize to the point that they don't make any money either.

Tell that to J***** who owns A******* S******* (Glenn I think you know who I'm referring to).

They are exlcusively an aquarium store (fresh and saltwater) and I'd say they are doing alright -- based on the appearance of the store and my aquaintance with the owner. Good business practices and a long history in the hobby. Their prices aren't cheap either, but in the market they are in, most of their customers don't need to ask how much.

More power to them, I say.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

I agree with Glen for the most part. I don't know of any specialized reef stores within 150 miles or more of where I live. Even Nashville doesn't have an exclusively all saltwater store. The well established stores do fine but dealing with the overhead necessary to compete in today's retail world is tough for new ones. The maintenance business seems to be where it is at today. Low overhead and $30-50 per hour.(or more) You don't get to teach much, but you do get paid. (eddie are you listening?)

Judy you seem to enjoy what you are doing, but I would suggest thinking about a little water gardening action to suppliment the slower summer season. A small greenhouse could be used for both frags and pond plants. If you are there in the country you would seem to be in an ideal spot. Try to expand your business to the point where you can afford to hire a good hobbyist as an employee. You need some time away from the business and the only way it can happen is if you have employees you trust. How's your Spanish? Bump up your frag and colony prices just a bit. I think your loyal customers will be willing to pay just a bit more and it will help your bottom line. I wish you all the success in the world. Keep the positive attitude.

 

[flameangel1]

Phillyboy,
Thank you for your post above- it made my day start off good !!
Replies like that are one of the main things that make this business and life in general, worthwhile.

Glenn,
I treat the newbie with the same respect as a long time aquarist.
Within a few months , they will be helping the next newbie, as I helped them. Doctors and lawyers etc, are treated EXACTLY the same as the factory worker, in here also. Exclusive clubs are NOT my cup of tea at all either.
But, you are right about not having all ones eggs in the same basket, as far as money goes. I have a small craft business also, that does make more money than the shop does. Could not make it if I didn't.

 

[Anonymous]

Jenn-

That's exactly the point I'm making. The store you are referring to has a wide selection of stuff (fresh and salt) I don't think most people consider it a specialty shop. An aquarium only store is about as specialized as I'd get, I don't see the need to specialize in salt water only and then to even further specialize into reef only.

Glenn

 

[SPC]

Posted by Glenn:

But a good GP often makes a cardiologist unneccessary.

-Only if the patient is willing to listen and then carry out the suggestions given. :wink:

-I think dizzy needs a group hug .

Steve

 

[JennM]

Phillyboy -- thanks No harm done. It's good for all of us to have food for thought.

Glenn -- but it IS a specialty store, and I'd even argue that it caters to the higher end aqurarist, or at least the higher-brow aquarist. Not too many of the miserly sorts spend in there, they do go in to browse but they cater to the big-spenders. Some are hard core hobbyists but many are not, they are the bread-and-butter customer that just wants a "purty blue one".

Dizzy, you're absolutely right about maintenances -- I do those too. And that's where a good chunk of my revenue comes from, and once school starts and my kids are back in, I'm seeking to expand that part of the biz. The fees are mostly labour, I deliver dry goods as needed (and ONLY as needed, I do not oversell -- but some do), and I don't have to give discounts. Delivery warrants the full retail price of whatever I bring. I've seen some services "work" -- algae wipe, $85 please. I do the whole thing, water testing, filters/skimmers cleaned, water change, full report -- for a competitive fee. I don't process as many customers as the flying aglae wipers, but my reputation is better Quality not quantity.... Still once I get into a good routine with a particular tank, I can work efficiently and make money.

It's ironic that those hands-off fish tank owners are subsidizing the business for the hands-on hobbyists...

Jenn

 

[eddie]

I'd suggest supplementing with a hydroponic supply hobby section thats another growing popular hobby(if I had a LFS)

 

[Anonymous]

but it IS a specialty store, and I'd even argue that it caters to the higher end aqurarist, or at least the higher-brow aquarist.

If the market will support it I'm all for it. My problem was when people specialize themselves to the point that they don't make any money.

 

[flameangel1]

Dizzy,
Thank you for your nice comments of support above.
We did get way off topic here, but seems we all understand each other a good deal more and that is essentially how we make things better for all of us. I only wish some of the hobbyists would take the time to read this thread..

Jenn, You have an excellant attitude and I think you will make a good businesswoman and be Very good for this hobby. I love the way the younger women have the confidence to get out there, speak their mind , and go for their goals !!

Rover,,
I went into this business because I felt there was a strong need in this area, for a knowledgable LFS, that was NOT out there trying to take the hobbyists anyway they could.

As a conservationist (oh that dirty word again ) ,
one needs to find a niche, and still keep a fairly clear conscience.
AS a reef specialist, it follows along with creating a small piece of the ocean. Plenty of interest there for the hobbyist and more normal for the animals also.( and less guilt trips )
If people want to carry on to other areas, they will still have a good knowledge for the conditions to get there.