Cyanide Effects On Corals

[PeterIMA]

This is a reply to Kalk's claim that cyanide at low concentrations does not harm corals (the original thread has been closed). To some degree his argument makes sense, but he is wrong in his conclusion. Let me explain.

In 1986, I visited the Philippines with other IMA directors (Dr. Vaughan Pratt, Steve Robinson, and Dr. Don McAllister). During the visit we met with biologists from the Philippines Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources. I obtained an unpublished study where the BFAR Coral Reef Research Team had dosed test quadrats off Cebu containing corals with cyanide in a manner similar to the collectors. Two applications several months apart was observed to kill corals. This was presented in two papers with the same title "The Effects of Sodium Cyanide On Marine Fish and Coral Reefs In the Philippines". The short version was published in the Proceedings of the Asian Fisheries Forum (now posted on several web sites). A longer version of the review paper by this title was published in two issues of Marine Fish Monthly in 1987. In the 1987 paper I went into more detail to explain that I had interviewed several biologists who claimed that they had dosed corals with sodium cyanide (NaCN) and could not perceive any harmfull effect days and several weeks later. The corals polyps contracted when squirted with a plume of cyanide, then expanded (polyp reopened) and appeared normal to the viewer. Hence in 1987, one might conclude that repeated applications of cyanide were needed to kill corals (this is now known to be wrong-let me explain why).

In 1995, the Nature Conservancy published an important report by Drs. Bob Johannes and Michael Riepen. In this report they stated that the collectors were using as many as 7 cyanide tablets in squirt bottles to capture groupers for the live food fish trade. The groupers were being extracted with cyanide from under coral heads. Also in the paper they claimed the cyanide concentrations being used were in excess of 25,000 parts per million (mg/liter). I found this concentration almost unbelievable. Most of the literature I had reviewed indicated that fish were killed at cyanide concentrations of about 3-5 ppm. Hence, I had assumed that the concentration used by the collectors was somewhere in that range (around 5 ppm). In fact, it is much higher. Even one cyanide tablet weighing 20 grams when fully dissolved in a one liter squirt bottle would be equal to 20,000 mg/L (ppm) sodium cyanide (NaCN) solution. If one takes into account the fact that part of the compound is sodium then the cyanide ion concentration is about 11,000 ppm. At the pH of seawater, the cyanide ion forms hydrocyanic acid (HCN). In 2001 in my
Cyanide-Free Net-Caught paper, I explained that since the tablets are put into the squirt bottle, they sequentially dissolve creating a plume of undissolved NaCN particles (which appear white undewater) and HCN in solution. Hence the concentration is probably lower than 11,000 ppm. Based on measurements of the concentration in seized squirt bottles the concentration squirted must still be in excess of 1500 ppm.

It was another decade before we finally got some serious coral reef reseachers doing studies on the effects of cyanide on corals. The first paper by Dr. Ross Jones was posted on the web site for the SPC Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin in 1997. Dr. Jones has now published four papers in peer reviewed scientific journals. The application of 5200 ppm of cyanide for 10, 20, and 30 minutes was shown to kill hard corals (Pocillopora and Porites) within 7 days (Jones and Steven 1997). Lower concentrations (520 ppm) resulted in loss of zooxanthellae, which may cause corals to die over longer time periods (Rubec et al. 2001). This hypothesis was confirmed by recent research by James Cervino and co-authors (including myself). Hard and soft corals (genera Scolymia, Goniopora, Euphyllia, Acropora, Heliofungia, Plerogyra, Favia, and Sarvophyton exposed for 120 seconds to concentrations of HCN ranging from 50 to 600 ppm exhibited loss in color (bleaching) associated with the expulsion of zooxanthellae (Rubec et al. 2001, Cervino et al. In Press). The Acroporid corals (the most prevalent coral type on the reef with lots of branches where fish can hide) shed their tunics (living tissue on skeleton) to form bare skeletons within 24 hours. Other genera of corals with more tissue on their skeletons took longer before they shed their tunics and were visably dead. My point is that one dose of HCN at concentrations markedly lower than that used by the collectors caused adverse effects on the corals that were irreversible (like changes in protein synthesis, alterations in the rate of cell division, expulsion of symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae needed for nutrition of the corals). Most specimens observed for over 3 months died. Many however looked fine for the first few days, weeks or a month. This did not change the fact that they were damaged internally and eventually died. With some genera it takes several months, before the corals shed their tunics and are visibly dead. One application of cyanide at concentrations lower than that used by the collectors was lethal to the majority of test specimens representing 8 genera of corals and one genus of sea anemone.

Kalk implies that there is some safe concentration of cyanide. I totally disagree. With fish, a study by Lesniac and Ruby found that even very low concentrations of cyanide (0.003 ppm) with prolonged exposure (several weeks) caused genetic damage in flag fish that was apparent in second and third generation progeny. Dr. Steven Oakley (personal communication 1999) has conducted experiments in the field in Malaysia where he exposed coral fragments in glass jars to concentrations of HCN of 1 ppm. He observed toxicity to the corals even at this low concentration. In conclusion, there is no safe concentration at which corals are not damaged by cyanide.

References to most of what I have discussed are given in my published papers. The Cervino paper is In Press, so I can not yet distribute it. You can consult the abstract from his presentation at the Second Marine Ornamentals Conference, that I posted on this site several months ago.

Sincerely,
Peter Rubec, Ph.D.

 

[Anonymous]

Just playing devils advocate:

How quickly is the juice diluted once it's squirted? And how do you test what concentration actually is absorbed by the coral/fish and the duration in something as big as the ocean, after factoring in all the currents, turbulence and other variables?

 

[PeterIMA]

Reply to Rover, The experiments done by Cervino et al. were mostly done iin the laboratory. The coral fragments were dipped into bare tanks containing known cyanide concentrations (mostly 600 ppm) for 120 seconds. Cervino has also done some field studies in Papua New Guinea and the Philippines. These did not look at dilution rates with the plume etc.
However, we believe that the cyanide at the center of the plume (that hits the coral is not diluted within the range one normally holds the squirt bottle on the coral (less than one foot). The experimental time duration is also similar to that used by the collectors.

Dr. Jones has a method for measuring photosynthesis of corals in the field and has discussed the questions of plume dyanamics. More on this study later.

Peter Rubec

 

[Kalkbreath]

Controlled laboratory test are useful ... but do not necessarily give the same results... { most laboratory reef tanks are unhealthy stressed corals to begin with} What would be nice, is for a test to determine the lower limits that are needed to stun fish enough for capture..... then apply those same levels to live corals on the reef. With that said ,I am not suggesting that native collectors are consummate enough to be juice fishing at all. Even if there is a "safe" level for cyanide application. The importance of knowing the truth about cyanide fishing, is so that we can determine what damage this hobby has caused and what....{as Peter nicely pointed out }what the seafood fisherman are killing day after day. Even if we get every fish collector to stop using cyanide.......those collectors are going to use "something" to flush out the fish from the corals heads........{and most likely is one tool they already use daily................A crowbar!}
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[PeterIMA]

Kalk, You rightly stated the fishermen are going to use "something" to get the fish out of the corals. Steve Robinson demonstrated to me in 1986 the fine points of net-collecting. A barrier net is placed around a coral head in a semi-circle. Then the collector uses a "poker" which is usually a piece of bamboo or a thin metal rod to goose the fish causing them to flee away from the diver and towards the barrier net. They are then scooped off the wall of the barrier net with a hand net. This is not the only technique collectors use. But, yes it does require use of a poker to get the fish to leave the coral heads. Drugs of any kind are not required at any concentration. Internalize that, please.

The IMA adopted the net-training program developed by Steve Robinson in 1986 and formed an IMA net-training team using divers trained by Steve from Santiago Island. They conducted 8 pilot net-trainings from 1987 to 1989. When funds were obtained from the Canadian International Development Corporation in 1989, I traveled to the Philippines and helped to establish the Netsman Project (a joint project of IMA-Canada and the Haribon Foundation for Conservation of Natural Resources). In the recent paper I wrote I outlined that Haribon with Ocean Voice International (OVI) and the Internatiional Marinelife Alliance (IMA) have trained about 1900 aquarium fish collectors in net-capture methods in the Philippines. We still maintain that no drugs of any kind are needed. Tell your "friends" that.

It is too bad that I have to debate this simple fact with someone like you.
You would be more help to the trade and marine hobby, if you put some of your energy into condemning cyanide fishing and those who exploit poor village fishermen.

Peter Rubec

 

[mkirda]

Controlled laboratory test are useful ... but do not necessarily give the same results... { most laboratory reef tanks are unhealthy stressed corals to begin with} What would be nice, is for a test to determine the lower limits that are needed to stun fish enough for capture..... then apply those same levels to live corals on the reef. With that said ,I am not suggesting that native collectors are consummate enough to be juice fishing at all. Even if there is a "safe" level for cyanide application. The importance of knowing the truth about cyanide fishing, is so that we can determine what damage this hobby has caused and what....{as Peter nicely pointed out }what the seafood fisherman are killing day after day. Even if we get every fish collector to stop using cyanide.......those collectors are going to use "something" to flush out the fish from the corals heads........{and most likely is one tool they already use daily................A crowbar!}

Kalkbreath,

I really, really wonder where you get this "information".

Please contact me directly via PM. I would like to go ahead and send you a few papers on cyanide use. I would like you to read them and analyse them for us all- Give us your interpretation.

My own interpretation: There *IS* no safe level of cyanide application. You juice a coral, you may not kill it outright the first time. After bleaching, it may actually recover. Not likely, based on the levels of cyanide used in the squirt bottles, but it *is* possible. You juice it a second time, even after recovery, it will turn to an algae farm.

In Bali back in October 2000, I was able to catch James Cervino's talk on coral and cyanide use. Besides the laboratory work (which showed pretty conclusively that cyanide killed coral), James showed some field photos. While I could easily criticise his focusing ability (the photos were blurry), I could not argue with example after example after example after example- healthy coral being hit with cyanide, same coral the following day completely white. James could not have shown a more devastating sequence of slides- even if they were blurry at times, you could easily recognize the same coral, or the ghost of the coral a mere day later. Then the less easily recognizable coral a couple of weeks later, when the white turned to turf and hair algae and there wasn't a single polyp left alive on the coral.

Many fish are currently available net-caught. Despite whatever you think you know, there are currently operating several hundred net fishermen/women. They do not use crowbars- frankly crowbars are too heavy. They use a section of palm frond, or sometimes bamboo, to help coax fish out of coral and into the barrier nets. Some use a blast of air from the hookah hose. Most species have a natural, innate sense of swimming from danger- some swim up, some swim down. The collector needs to know this on a per species basis, then adjust his/her tactics accordingly... Coaxing the fish down into the barrier net, or up into it. The hardest fish are the ones that hide in holes in the reef- you need to study the reef, and place nets at all exit holes, then coax the fish out of the hiding spot via air blasts or palm fronds. They swim out, and into the net- IF you placed them properly.

I would urge anyone and everyone here on this forum to travel to the Philippines and go diving with some of these net-caught fishermen. Spend some time with them and listen to them. You will find out that you really don't know anything about them.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

it sounds to me that the idea of hormesis might be what's being applied to the use of cyanide and its effects on inverts (i'm certain that corals aren't the only creatures affected).

i hadn't even heard of hormesis til quite recently, can try to find the article if anyone's interested. it posits (and, apparently there are studies that seem to lean in the direction) that very small doses of substances (such as: mercury, radiation, arsenic) that are toxic can actually cause even better growth, immunity, and reproduction in a myriad of species covering the plant and animal kingdoms.

however, another issue not discussed here is, are these collectors also poisoning themselves? it seems to me that, if they're using this on a regular basis they then might be basically "pickling" themselves in cyanide, if not actually ingesting small amounts by mouth (if not through absorption via skin).

 

[Anonymous]

To add to this conversation...

Cyanide isn't selective, it may stun a large fish, but it'll kill all small life forms, fish fry, plankton, etc.

While, nets allow all that stuff to PASS RIGHT THREW THE NET, allowing the small reef life forms to thrive.

No juice, is good juice. You don't need any, nets are a far greater tool than any juice you'll come up with.

Small amounts may even make the coral stronger, complete rubbish. I say to you, ingest small amounts of cyanide yourself and see if it makes you stonger :wink: . Sounds like something my great grandpa would say, "if doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger".

 

[Kalkbreath]

What you all are not doing is separating the seafood fisherman from the pet collectors. ............. Seafood collectors use very high levels because it kills faster,a wider swath , kills larger fish and they [seafood collectors}dont care if the fish die..........a pet collector cares very much if his catch dies......it is then of no value... If you think aquarium fish collectors are not concerned with how strong a dose they are squirting into the coral heads your wrong... It s the seafood fisheman along with their blasting bottles which are causing the majority of the damage...
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[Kalkbreath]

I want to be clear that I am not supporting the use of Cyanide fishing, what I am attempting to do is hand out reality and show what is really happening out on the reefs. Ending cyanide fishing is not going to happen, at best we might be able to stop cyanidehobby fish from entering the USA. {with testing} But the seafood fisherman are going to still be working the reefs {and maybe many new ex aquarium fisherman }................. As much as I keep hearing how easy it is to collect with nets ......you have failed to convince the only people which matter ....the collectors. Even with a great teacher,No where in the world have the net fisherman learned to collect tiny coral head hiding fish in the great numbers needed to supply this hobby.......not Hawaii not Fiji not Tonga ,not Cortez {where are my flasher blennies?}.... ................................I can have Micheal Jorden tech me how to dunk a basket ball .....but I dout if I will ever be as good as my teacher{MJ} Same thing for Steve teaching net fishing, .........Cyanide fishing is kind of like lowering the basket ball goal to four feet........Now i can dunk better then Micheal Jorden! ................. The Philippine fisherman have been playing on a four foot basketball goal for many years......to expect that they will willingly raise the basket to ten feet and still be able to hold their place in the Market..........is silly
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[Kalkbreath]

Lastly. Have any of you wondered what would happen if all juice fishing was to end ? The price of blennies, gobbies ,ect. would increase ten times{The cost of most blennies from places like Hawaii are already ten time the price of PI!} With the increased value of fish , collectors will be able to make in three days......what used to take a whole month! Now that is if they can just still collect the same number of fish! If he could just get those fish out of the ten foot wide coral head? His poking pole he can only reach into the coral a few feet { These corals are huge PI has some of the Largest in the world}, so out comes the crow bar { just like a show I saw on the Discovery channel} CRUNCH! Those fish are coming out now! ......................Just like during the gold rush, the things men will do when the opportunity to make more money then ever flashes in front of their heads........If its not cyanide, it will be bleach or Quinaline or gasoline.........What we need is a replacement tool for the harmfull cyanide.............a replacement which is eco-friendly but still gives the Philippine collectors what they feel is an edge.......If we dont come up with one ..they will?
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[PeterIMA]

Kalk, I have to admit that despite all the time and effort spent teaching collectors to use nets (in the Philippines less so in Indonesia) that there is still rampant use of cyanide by both aquarium fish and food fishermen. It is true that food fish collectors use more cyanide per squirt bottle (about 3-5 tablets) than aquarium fish collectors (1-2 tablets). However, this is compensated for by the fact that there are more aquarium fish collectors (more than 4,000) versus 250-500 food fishermen using cyanide in the Philippines. So, I am not prepared to state that the problem in primarily due to the food fishermen using cyanide.

You are blaming the collectors for refusing to switch over to the use of nets. Let me clarify this. All of the collectors that IMA and Haribon have trained welcomed the net-training and were anxious to stop using cyanide. After all, they are the one who first saw how destructive cyanide was to the reefs. They willing confessed this to Steve Robinson in 1983 (FAMA articles 1983 to 1985) and to myself on my visit to Binabalian (Santiago Islaand near Bolinao) in 1986 ( Marine Fish Monthly 1987). So why was there so much back-sliding by the collectors to using cyanide? An article by Maravic Pajaro in Sea Wind stated that more than 71% of those trained during the Netsman Project run by Haribon Foundation reverted to the use of cyanide. The reasons given were the lack of availability of fine mesh netting needed to make barrier nets and to the lack of skill in using accessory gear (pokers). IMA has also experienced backsliding (Rubec 2001). I noted in my Cyanide-Free Net-Caught paper that the real problem (at least recently) is that "fishermen using nets should be paid more for their fish to compensate for the loss in income associated with using cyanide." In the next paragraph I discussed how the exporters continued to buy cyanided fish, mixed in a few net-caught fish and claimed they were all net-caught.
The problem that we now are facing is that the exporters refuse to pay more for net-caught fish under the MAC Certification program. More specifically, the Philippine Tropical Fish Exporters Association (PFTEA)headed by Lolita Ty (owner of Aquascapes Philippines) insists that the price paid to collectors should be that set by the association (irrespective of whether the fish were net-caught or cyanide-caught). The prices paid per fish to the collectors in pesos has not kept up with inflation. By this I mean that the Philippine peso has been markedly devalued over the past 3 years and went from 30 pesos to over 50 pesos today. The exporters are being paid in US dollars. They have not passed on any increases in payments for the fish in pesos to the collectors. So, collectors are now earning less than they did before in terms of the value of the fish in US dollars. The MAC feasability study demonstrated to the four participating companies (Aquarium Habitat, HD Marineworld, Aquascapes Philippines and Landmark Export) that the mortality on the fish could be reduced from over 30% for cyanide-caught fish to 3-5% for properly handled net-caught fish (Rubec and Cruz, OFI Journal 2002). Hence, it is economically possible for the exporters to pay 10% more for net-caught fish and still make a good profit when these fish are exported. Net-caught fish do not need a handicap to compete in the market place (e.g., your Michael Jordan analagy). The tragedy is that the MAC Certification Program may fail because of the greed and intrangience of the PFTEA over pricing. Don't blame the collectors, blame the exporters. Expect more information on this later.

Peter Rubec

 

[Kalkbreath]

I will simplify the question..........Why is it that Fiji, Hawaii, Tonga, Maldives never offer small reef fish in large supply{when those collectors are the best net fisherman in play}? The answer to this single question in turn will reveal the truth as to why after twenty years nothing has changed in PI? I think we all will be quite dissapointed when testing is finally carried out on the new MAC "NET" cought fish!
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[dizzy]

The MAC feasability study demonstrated to the four participating companies (Aquarium Habitat, HD Marineworld, Aquascapes Philippines and Landmark Export) that the mortality on the fish could be reduced from over 30% for cyanide-caught fish to 3-5% for properly handled net-caught fish (Rubec and Cruz, OFI Journal 2002).
Peter Rubec

Peter,
Are you sure about the above statement? I remember reading something on the MAC web site that said they had done the feasibility tests and found that 1% was obtainable. Why would they insist on keeping the 1% DOA/DAA standard that has caused so much controversy, if their tests showed 3-5% to be more realistic?

 

[mkirda]

I will simplify the question..........Why is it that Fiji, Hawaii, Tonga, Maldives never offer small reef fish in large supply{when those collectors are the best net fisherman in play}? The answer to this single question in turn will reveal the truth as to why after twenty years nothing has changed in PI? I think we all will be quite dissapointed when testing is finally carried out on the new MAC "NET" cought fish!

Um, because, combined, their reef area probably does not equal the area of the Philippines, because, combined, they have far, far fewer collectors than the Philippines?

If you are so sure that MAC's current fish are cyanide-caught, why don't you pony up the cash to prove your point?

Peter, is there any lab in the US to which we could submit a fish and prove/dis-prove Kalkbreath's assertion?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[PeterIMA]

Reply to Mitch, I could not get an answer from MAC personnel concerning the mortality rates from collectors to the exporters participating in the MAC Feasability study in September (I was preparing an article on the CAMPs for the OFI Journal). Persons in the MAC I spoke with included Lino Alvarez (MAC-Philippines coordinator and David Vosseler). I spoke with Marivi Laurel the owner of Aquarium Habitat. She provided the 3-5% mortality rate information. Her company receives 80-90% of the net-caught supply. Hence, her mortality rate should be the best obtainable with the methods described in the article published in the OFI Journal. I also interviewed Tim Tessier of Seacare in Vancouver, who reported about the same rate of mortality on importing net-caught fish to Vancouver, Canada from Aquarium Habitat. In Switzerland, Josef Steiger experienced an 8% mortality on receiving fish from Aquarium Habitat. I David Vossler of the MAC who stated that some shipments from the collectors to Manila exporters had 1-2% mortality, if one excludes certain "difficult" species. No one in the MAC sent me any data to substantiate this.

 

[PeterIMA]

I am not sure what Kalk is asserting. The first part about certain species of small reef fish not coming from Fiji etc., may be false (see Mary's statements that she does receive blennies, gobies etc. from Fiji and other countries where cyanide is not being used). It is possible to collect these species with two hand nets and probably by other methods (ask Steve Robinson).

Did Kalk demand cyanide testing to prove the assertion that the MAC Certified fish will have cyanide present? I think he means that he believes that blennies, gobies, and mandarines can only be caught by cyanide. If I am guessing correctly, he believes that even MAC Certified fish of these families will have cyanide present. My answer is, if they can be caught with nets elsewhere, they can also be caught in a similar way in the Philippines.

Mike's question. I do not know of a laboratory where one could send marine aquarium fish for cyanide ion testing in the USA. Presumably, there are laboraories in the USA equipped the way the IMA labs were set up. My guess is that there are laboratories set up to test cyanide for the US-EPA under contract. However, the one that the MAC used did not perform well when asked to evaluate the test procedures in the IMA Standard Operating Procedure Manual.

Peter Rubec

 

[Kalkbreath]

Most juiced fish die the first day on the way to the broker.......if the fish make it to the broker .....they usually remain alive for ten to fourteen days. So this idea that one can tell if a fish is net cought by the how many die in the brokers hands is silly.........
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[Kalkbreath]

I am not sure what Kalk is asserting. The first part about certain species of small reef fish not coming from Fiji etc., may be false (see Mary's statements that she does receive blennies, gobies etc. from Fiji and other countries where cyanide is not being used). It is possible to collect these species with two hand nets and probably by other methods (ask Steve Robinson).

Did Kalk demand cyanide testing to prove the assertion that the MAC Certified fish will have cyanide present? I think he means that he believes that blennies, gobies, and mandarines can only be caught by cyanide. If I am guessing correctly, he believes that even MAC Certified fish of these families will have cyanide present. My answer is, if they can be caught with nets elsewhere, they can also be caught in a similar way in the Philippines.

Mike's question. I do not know of a laboratory where one could send marine aquarium fish for cyanide ion testing in the USA. Presumably, there are laboraories in the USA equipped the way the IMA labs were set up. My guess is that there are laboratories set up to test cyanide for the US-EPA under contract. However, the one that the MAC used did not perform well when asked to evaluate the test procedures in the IMA Standard Operating Procedure Manual.

Peter Rubec

Yes , the reason that no other place on Earth collects small reefs fish in HUGE numbers{except Bali} is that it is impossible to do , in huge coral forrests .... without an advantage..........This is why collectors Poison them selvesf for years and continue to fish this way despite all your efforts.... Steve collects in Kelp Forrests and Rock piles and still comes up short on orders every time he goes out.......Hawaii does not even offer any small fish {because who wants to poke in coral heads all day long to collect 1$ dollars fish.........Tonga fisherman now are importing Philippine fisherman so they {the Tongans} dont have to dive so deep themselves and almost drown trying to get a 60cent Bi color blenny. The reason there are so few MAC certified Bicolor blennies is that they dont respond vary well to Juice..........I think you all nedd to talk to the collectors in Fiji and other locations and ask them why they cant seem to collect these small fish?
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[kylen]

"The reason there are so few MAC certified Bicolor blennies is that they dont respond vary well to Juice"

Huh...what??? Kalk I think you are one confused person. To be debating the degree of affect of cyanide on coral seems like a moot point when the real debate should be over the use of cyanide itself.

To add a few numbers to this discussion, here are my mortality numbers, off the top of my head, for the last couple of shipments from Marivi at Aquarium Habitat. Bear in mind, I am a small importer so our numbers may not represent those of a larger importer.

Overall DOA - about 1.3% (0.8% when two species are removed from the counts)

DAA - after 1 week - about 2% overall.

These numbers are a dramatic improvement from what I have seen from other PI exporters. With the reduced DOA's, the overall quality of fish is also noticeably improved.

Kyle
Coast Mountain Aquatics