Whole Foods Market backs sustainable food fisheries program

[John_Brandt]

http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2003/05/19/daily18.html

 

[Frazer]

Reading between the lines, it looks like MSC is strapped for a bit of cash, and one of their board of trustees has passed along a grant just in time. This may help the MSC identify fisheries that could be certified, but the fishery itself has to pay for the certification, not the MSC. At an MSC presentation I saw in Lima, when asked how much does it cost, they couldn't answer the government representative from Peru or Mexico.

It's certainly not cheap, and really can only be afforded in affluent 'first world' fisheries. People earning less than a dollar a day can certainly never afford MSC certification. Even a small fishery like the Alaskan Salmon fishery was upwards of $200,000.

Frazer

 

[MaryHM]

And this brings up a good point. I highly doubt the collectors in the Philippines can afford to pay for MAC certification. Who pays for that?

 

[mkirda]

And this brings up a good point. I highly doubt the collectors in the Philippines can afford to pay for MAC certification. Who pays for that?

Ahh, the $10,000 question MAC doesn't want asked...

I'm still wondering how they are paying for an English-speaking secretary.
Oh, it must be the $2.50 they are getting for their clown fish.... :roll:

Up to this point, I have yet to fully understand how the money flows, and how all the extra work actually benefits the MAC-certified collectors. These questions always go unanswered, or are deflected to 'other' topics.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
The answers you seek have been changed...there are no new answers. If you have reached this recording in error, or massive amounts of them, please be kind enough to not ask any more questions.
Steve
PS I found the answers you seek. They were under the vanilla colored netting bundle.

 

[mkirda]

It's certainly not cheap, and really can only be afforded in affluent 'first world' fisheries.

Sheesh... I could save them the money.

Um, there are no more unfished sustainable fisheries anywhere in the Americas.

Maybe I should charge them a couple of mil for the obvious?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

The MARINE STEWARDSHIP COUNCIL...
Selling placebos and cloaking devices to large corporate seafood industries. If "environmental sustainability" is the new business doctrine to organize fisherman and deliver them unto participating companies, we are in trouble. Using this credo as a cover for labor control, monopolization and public relations will, as they well know, numb consumers into acceptance. Regardless of scientific sustainability the issue becomes more a question of company sustainability against poorer competitors and poorer still local fisherman.
Soon we will need new terms for environmental sustainability as this one becomes watered down and part of the corporate culture.
OOOPs Sorry, a moment of clarity, I won't let it happen again.
Steve
PS To connect this to your own experience, remember the forestry council? "Logging old growth trees under the banner of responsible forest management?" No?
Soon there will be no crime against the environment without its pre packaged justification

 

[John_Brandt]

And this brings up a good point. I highly doubt the collectors in the Philippines can afford to pay for MAC certification. Who pays for that?

Ahh, the $10,000 question MAC doesn't want asked...

I'm still wondering how they are paying for an English-speaking secretary.
Oh, it must be the $2.50 they are getting for their clown fish.... :roll:

Up to this point, I have yet to fully understand how the money flows, and how all the extra work actually benefits the MAC-certified collectors. These questions always go unanswered, or are deflected to 'other' topics.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Y'all should know this by now. MAC funding comes from grants. I've mentioned it numerous times. There is a donation program available to sponsor a village whereby funds will be matched. So far, MAC has seen little to no donations from the industry or hobbyist sector. Funding comes predominantly from grants which are given to conservation organizations.

The long-term business plan for MAC is to become self-sufficient, and not require grants. MAC gets zero income at this point from certified animals. When the supply and demand gets ramped up a small fee applied at one point in the chain of custody will serve as the income for MAC's operating expenses. The goal is for MAC to eventually be fully funded by the industry that it supports.

Since I just answered the $10,000 question, are you guys going to pay me for it? :wink:

 

[MaryHM]

Obviously we know MAC is funded by grants. I can't find on the MAC website where it says the collector's certification is paid with a donation/matching funds program. Could you point me to it?

 

[MaryHM]

These questions always go unanswered, or are deflected to 'other' topics.

You've noticed this peculiar behavior too, Mike?? Thank goodness! I was starting to think I was paranoid.

 

[dizzy]

When the supply and demand gets ramped up a small fee applied at one point in the chain of custody will serve as the income for MAC's operating expenses.

John,
According to that infamous "Retailer Cost Benefit Study" a 2% fee is going to be charged to the retailers. The damn wholesalers are the ones driving the black BMWs.

 

[John_Brandt]

Obviously we know MAC is funded by grants. I can't find on the MAC website where it says the collector's certification is paid with a donation/matching funds program. Could you point me to it?

You won't find it on the website. It's an option for donors. I think David calls it the "Adopt A Village" program.

 

[John_Brandt]

I was starting to think I was paranoid.

Phew, I was starting to think you were paranoid too 8O

 

[John_Brandt]

When the supply and demand gets ramped up a small fee applied at one point in the chain of custody will serve as the income for MAC's operating expenses.

John,
According to that infamous "Retailer Cost Benefit Study" a 2% fee is going to be charged to the retailers. The damn wholesalers are the ones driving the black BMWs.

Who needs black BMWs when you can have aquariums that revolve?

That infamous retailer study uses an out-of-date application for the 2% fee. It is almost certain to occur earlier in the chain of custody, possibly at exporter. No fee has been applied anywhere yet.

 

[clarionreef]

John,
On the way to earning the 10K, a few speed bumps need to be overcome.
1] "so far no donations from the indutry or the hobby..."
2] "the long term business plan...to be self sufficient"
3] "goal is to be financed from the industry..."
4] "when supply and demand get ramped up...small fee..."

I got some advice...to help generate support and enthusiasm:

" You need something with color,
something with dash...
something to bring donars a running with cash...
Something thats real,
things you can feel...
deeds that make people support you with zeal.
You need a net supply guys ,
that we can see with our eyes,
a then you need fish
to go with those fries.
Grants and donations...
levies and fees,
without gettin real
this don't grow on trees.
We gots ta have training,
with plans well laid.
you got to show proof
if you want to get paid.
So whats with the quarrel..
and the point of this moral?
Please call Mike King
and make the Deal with CORL.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

I was starting to think I was paranoid.

Phew, I was starting to think you were paranoid too 8O

I don't think this comment was really appropriate.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

Y'all should know this by now. MAC funding comes from grants. I've mentioned it numerous times. There is a donation program available to sponsor a village whereby funds will be matched. So far, MAC has seen little to no donations from the industry or hobbyist sector. Funding comes predominantly from grants which are given to conservation organizations.

The long-term business plan for MAC is to become self-sufficient, and not require grants. MAC gets zero income at this point from certified animals. When the supply and demand gets ramped up a small fee applied at one point in the chain of custody will serve as the income for MAC's operating expenses. The goal is for MAC to eventually be fully funded by the industry that it supports.

So MAC is paying for the English-speaking secretary, via a grant?
And is MAC also paying the difference in price to the collectors? I understood that a maroon clownfish went wholesale for less than 50 cents. Is MAC paying the Batasan Island collectors the extra $2 per piece out of grants to get the price up to the $2.50 (as it shows on it's website)?

http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/docs/lib ... rticle.PDF
states this:
"A year ago, when the fish would probably have been caught with cyanide, the common tomato clown might have earned Sitoy 75 U.S. cents. Today the business manager credits Sitoy's account with $2.50 for the crimson-colored fish. Such a sale price increase means a lot to Sitoy and his family."

If it is on the MAC website, can't it be assumed that it is 'certified' to be true?

If this is "The truth", then why do the three of the MAC-certified exporters, all say that they would go out of business if they had to pay $2.50 for a maroon (or tomato or any) clownfish?

I'm inclined to trust the exporters over MAC on this one.
It also makes me question the veracity of all other bits of 'information' on the MAC website.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

John, your snide little comments to me were very tiring. Now after all that has happened they are just ridiculous. I'm not sure what your problem with me is, other than I don't agree with you about MAC- but look around...I'm not the only one. If your goal is to run me away from this forum so I'll quit publicly pointing out MAC's ridiculously obvious flaws, it ain't gonna happen- so find someone else to vent your frustrations on.


Now, if we can get back to the topic and hand and stay there...
Concerning the cost of a clown. I try not to import Tomatos because they are mean little jerks! So let's use Maroons as an example, as pricing is very similar to that of tomatos- usually within $.10. I recently received some gorgeous maroons from Aquarium Habitat (a MAC certified facility, non-PTFEA member). Cost? $.85 for smalls and mediums. Somehow I think she's not buying them for $2.50.
I have a list from a PTFEA exporter that is not MAC certified- Maroon Clown cost? $.80 Tomatoes- $.85
I have another list from a non-MAC certified, non-PTFEA member- No maroons on the list, but let's use percs as a very similar example. Cost? $.75.

The most expensive clownfish on any of the lists is the saddleback clown (A. polymnus)- ranging from $1.20 to $1.50.

So now the question at hand is why is MAC publicly stating that a collector is being paid $2.50 for a clown?? Obviously that is not possible. I'm 3rd down the chain of custody and am not paying that much. John, an explanation from MAC on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mkirda]

John, your snide little comments to me

{cringe} This doesn't help either.

Respectfully,
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

Sorry Mike, but I've told him in the past that I'll treat him with respect if he affords me the same courtesy. Maybe he doesn't even realize what he's doing, and if I point it out each time he will finally stop.