A message from REEForm

[naesco]

I hope you have an excellent convention and regret that I cannot attend.
The issue of cyanide is on everyones mind. Dream an end to cyanide.
Stand up against it and most importantly tell those involved in the trade that the end is near.

Tell industry that REEForm will do all that it has said it will do.

Enroute to REEForm is a movie. In several weeks, after it has been edited, it will be posted for all to view in deadly colour on this and all reef boards.
Soon thereafter, it may be available to other groups who have an interest in reforming our hobby.
Bon Voyage

 

[Anonymous]

my apologies to len and rover in advance


naesco-

i've been reading all of your posts since i've joined rdo, and i'm just beside myself, and now feel compelled to tell you that...

you have to be one of the biggest foolish idiots i've ever had the displeasure to 'meet' on this forum-you're ignorance, and arrogance, astounds and amazes me to no end...

you understand nothing about this hobby, or this trade-whether it be the retail, wholesale, export, import aspects, ar any part of it involved in the acquisition of marine life for the end goal of the hobbyists ability to keep in their homes...

you have no conception as to what you say, or how what you say, affects others, whether they be 'the villians' or 'the heroes', in your eyes, or in the eyes of others

i've worked in many more aspects of this industry than you, and hell's bells, i don't even understand most of what really goes on at the other side of the world end, re: the economics/politics/business dealings aspect of this trade(though i think i have an inkling of an idea of the true picture)

i'm willing to bet that i've even been a s.w. hobbyist longer than you have, and have a far greater understanding of the care of these animals we deal with-to the point of realizing that blanket statements by self named 'tang police' :lol: naifs are equally as foolish as the drivel you've been spewing forth lately

you are nothing but a self serving sensationalist egotistical tool, whose only interest is glorifying himself under the guise of wanting to help reform an industry that needs some serious work, but you only want to use negative, non-constructive, damaging methods to do so, regardless of whether or not you trample innocent hard working do gooders in the process

may you and j. brandt both be doomed to spend the rest of your lives locked up together in a padded cell-in straightjackets, with one arm free so you can pat each other on the back, ad infinitum



this post was nasty, mean, and personal, but i just had to say something, before i friggin explode-


a legal disclaimer:

this post is solely my own personal opinion.period.

if i get banned from this bb because of this post, so be it- but,...

to the mods/ops- i'm compelled to take a stand here and now to whom i percieve as being the tru 'evildoers' that place this entire hobby, and industry, in real and present danger through their insistence at spewing forth their poison drivel incessantly on this bb which i do hold dear as one of the finer resources of information designed not to harm, but to help, this hobby and industry progress-mebbe in teeny baby steps, sometimes, but progress, nonetheless

you, naesco, have no interest in helping anything to progress, w/the exception of your own self serving agenda, and ego

extremely disrepectfully yours,forever and ever

vitz

(long live the KOF&L!!! )

 

[clarionreef]

Dear Moderator,
PLEASE don,t lock this thread. Its like 'Girls Gone Wild"...we know we shouldn't watch it but we just can't help ourselves!
Just when some think its going too far its just beginning to get to the heart of the matter and resolve something. Let it play I out. I beseech you.
For free speech, Steve
ps. Wayne, thanks for uniting us behind a common cause!

 

[Anonymous]

This is like watching a trainwreck about to happen. 8O

 

[DBM]

What are trying to say Vitz?

you are nothing but a self serving sensationalist egotistical tool

I thought all lawyers were like this :lol:

 

[Fish World1]

Very well said Vitz!

 

[Anemone]

And the point of starting this thread was what again?

Kevin

 

[liquid]

::shrug::

You've got me...

Shane

 

[Jamesurq]

I wipe my nose in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries....

 

[loosbrew]

an un biased view point here...

the point of this thread seemed to be harmless and worthwhile. Anyone trying to cease the use of cyanide should have a chance to speak. No one is perfect, so we must pick what is usefule about someone and focus on what part of the problem they can help with.

guidance and patience.

loosbrew

 

[naesco]

Thanks loosbrew.

I didn't expect any comment to my post from anyone.
Please understand that there are posters on this forum that entertain eachother with unkind posts sometimes.

Most of the other posters ignore them.

 

[MaryHM]

the point of this thread seemed to be harmless and worthwhile.

loosbrew,

Naesco is possibly harmless, possibly not, and his endeavor definitely isn't worthwhile. He is interested in installing a ban on ALL Philippine and Indonesian fish. Even those that are net caught. Most of us here are for industry reform and eradicating cyanide, but through the support of net caught collectors and exporters- not through lumping them in with the bad guys and shutting everything down. He has made threats against the industry, makes ridiculous demands, yet refuses to answer questions. That is why he is met with a mixture of amusement, hostility, and impatience in this and other forums.

 

[naesco]

the point of this thread seemed to be harmless and worthwhile.

loosbrew,

Naesco is possibly harmless, possibly not, and his endeavor definitely isn't worthwhile. He is interested in installing a ban on ALL Philippine and Indonesian fish. Even those that are net caught. Most of us here are for industry reform and eradicating cyanide, but through the support of net caught collectors and exporters- not through lumping them in with the bad guys and shutting everything down. He has made threats against the industry, makes ridiculous demands, yet refuses to answer questions. That is why he is met with a mixture of amusement, hostility, and impatience in this and other forums.

One more time

REEForm wants a committment from industry to stop the use of cyanide in the Philippines and Indonesia.

REEForm wants a timeline for the implementation of the above.

REEForm wants a committment from industry to fund the Cyanide Detection Testing (CDT) and training necessary to achieve its goal of a cyanide free hobby.

I ask to you Mary. I ask you all how could this be a ridiculous demand?

 

[MaryHM]

Here's how it's ridiculous- because it's a bunch of talk that is not well thought out.

1. You want a committment. What exactly does that mean? A bunch of people signing a sheet of paper?? That's already been done- it's called MAC.

2. A timeline? You don't want a timeline. You want the problem solved NOW. Remember our phone conversation?? Remember how I asked you "Which would you rather have- reform done right that take time or reform done fast even if it's done wrong?". Remember your answer?? It was "FAST". Remember how I totally lost control and yelled at you for being an idiot?? You are not going to turn the cyanide trade to net caught overnight. For one thing, there aren't enough trained collectors and there aren't enough nets to go around. (They still need barrier nets). Couple that with the fact that you have ONE- let me repeat ONE man doing the trainings. I could tell you "Cyanide use will be eradicated in 6 months". It would make you happy, but it would be a lie. Kinda like MAC saying the CDT would be implemented. It shut everyone up for a while, but in the end there is still no testing. Cyanide use will continue until all the collectors are trained, they all have proper materials, and exporters are willing to support it. I could tell you that the timeline is 20 years, but you wouldn't be happy with that. You only want to hear what you want to hear. Reform is going on RIGHT NOW. And we're getting there- slow and steady wins the race, Brer Rabbit.

3. A committment to fund the CDT?? Heck, MAC can't even agree on what CDT is valid. How do you expect the industry to fund something MAC won't even agree on or place a high priority on. Note to Wayne: The big industry players on all on board with MAC- at least on paper. Everything you are calling for, MAC is addressing. Why don't you address your concerns to MAC? Afterall, you support them fully. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel. Help MAC figure out that their wheel is a rectangle and then help them turn it into a circle. But hey, helping out MAC behind the scenes doesn't gain you any name recognition though, does it?

 

[naesco]

I know you speak for the industry and defend the continued import of fish from the Philippines. You are in the business of selling fish.

The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) www.aquariumcouncil.org is a well respected international organization of individuals who give up their time promoting improvement of the reefs worldwide and the fish, coral and other critters that dwell there.

They deserve the support of reefers and have the support of well know donors.
Although you are entitled to your opinion I do not think it is fair to condemn MAC. I know you were on the Board of MAC and resigned but I do not think that persoanl reasons should stand in the way of improvements in our hobby.
MAC wants to establish a USL which means fish that have no chance of surviving in reefer tanks will not be imported. I think that is a good thing.
MAC supports a CDT which mean cyanide detection testing which will detect and deter those who use cyanide in the Philippines. I think this is a good thing.

 

[MaryHM]

What does your last post have to do with anything I just said? Where did I condemn MAC? I think we all know they have problems. That's no big secret. I told you that they are already trying to do everything you are trying to do. "Wanting" to do a lot of good things and "Supporting" a lot of good things isn't DOING good things. You need to learn the difference between talk and action.

 

[horge]

Anyone trying to cease the use of cyanide should have a chance to speak.

Hello, loos,

No one's been denying naesco's ability to post thread after thread of fatherly sermons on the Mount.

...we must pick what is usefule about someone and focus on what part of the problem they can help with.

You mean naesco?



Good, solid advice you've offered us, loos.
I mean that.

Cheerio.
8)

 

[Anonymous]

Naesco, why didnt you show up to MACNA this year. If you really cared about "REEForm" :roll: you would have shown up. MACNA is a great place to meet all the "heavy hitters" (figuratively and most times physically) in the industry. The only real point I see in this thread is just to pimp your "good" name and boost your already Dr. Ron sized ego.

 

[naesco]

Naesco, why didnt you show up to MACNA this year. If you really cared about "REEForm" :roll: you would have shown up. MACNA is a great place to meet all the "heavy hitters" (figuratively and most times physically) in the industry. The only real point I see in this thread is just to pimp your "good" name and boost your already Dr. Ron sized ego.

As explained in another thread, relative to REEForm, the timing was not sufficient to do a professional job.

On a personal basis the timing could not have been worse.

 

[Anemone]

"REEForm" wants this, and "REEForm" demands that...and just who is REEForm again?.... Oh yeah, it's a big secret that only the Wizard,,,,um, naesco knows....

Naesco, you have an obvious agenda - badger people in the industry with incessant questions and demands for a variety of information, but you don't provide any information in return.

Try answering the questions people have asked you, rather than just demanding they answer your questions without giving any reason you'd like the information....

This thread was started for no other reason than to pat yourself on the back and issue more of your, I mean REEForm's, manifesto, and more none-to-subtle threats.

I want to see industry reform. I support Mary and others like her who are doing their part.

I don't like or support PETA or ELF. Although their goals may sometimes be laudible, their methods and rhetoric are on the lunatic fringe.

Congratulations. IMO, you're well on your way to creating the same lunatic fringe image for REEForm.

Kevin