Incognito

[horge]

Admins and mods,

What ABOUT setting a policy or philosophy on the use of screen names?
One for this forum only.
I mean, screen-pseudonyms are fine for dispensing the advice, humor or opinion that fills the other fora. This however is a forum that deals with a rather serious pack of issues, and there is a keener need for honesty and transparency.

Transparency: a word that gets flogged a lot on this forum, and often treated as a requirement on the part of any who would attempt at industry reform. Does it not cover us and our discussions as well?

Are we not all here to further reform?
Or are we here just to vent, to needle, to self-promote?
The latter are a waste of time and a dissipation of valuable time and energy needed for REAL problem-solving.

I'm posting this openly because I myself bear the taint of obscuring my identity. I've claimed use of a pseudonym for safety reasons (I live where I live, after all), and not a few here have pushed me for full disclosure of everything from my name to my education and the size of my...err, well...whatever.

well, guess what: my name really is Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.
I feel I've demonstrated evidence of my citizenship, as well as the limits of my knowledge and experience, in order for forum denizens to fairly weigh the worth of my posts.

However... if I'm going to make an accusation or at least a claim of fact that makes to put the lie to another thoroughly-identified poster's claims, shouldn't I identify myself fully... for courtesy's sake? Really, the surreal detachment of screen-names can be partly blamed for diluting the normal restraint and courtesy that serves addressing a 'real' person.

While we've had massively-unproductive "discussions" even and ESPECIALLY between fully-disclosed 'real' persons here, I'm prepared to accept that full disclosure may be necessary from the viewpoint of weeding out time-wasting liars, trolls and those concealing a deeply-personal vendetta behind an innocuous screen-name.

I'd at the very least be all for using real ID photos as avatars, to perhaps encourage the level of courtesy and restraint to what suits treating with REAL people.

What say the admins and mods?
What say the forum members?

I'm willing to risk some personal threat and danger if others are willing to risk courtesy and circumspect discourse.

An ID photo avatar and an informative signature line towards providing some background: is that so hard?


Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.
Quezon City
Metro Manila
Philippines

 

[Len]

I'm fine with a rule regarding single registrations for the sake of upholding the credibity and integrity of discussions. Many other communities have policies that forbid multiple registrations; Reefs.org does not, but I do see the merit in what you're suggesting for this forum. Please realize, however, that this is sometimes hard to enforce if someone's IP is not static.

Reefs.org will already disclose pseudonyms if we're able to positively identify that someone is posting with multiple user names. Our privacy policy does not protect against this type of disclosure.

We aren't going to require people to use ID photos for avatars That can be considered cruel and unusual punishment in some cases

A good faith measure in this forum is for everyone to discuss who they are and who they're affliated with. Reefs.org can't legally enforce or police this, but I personally encourage it. Since we're all here for honest, progressive discussion (or it is my hope), there should be no reason why any should want to hide their identity from the rest of the participants here.

 

[Ad van Tage]

Admins and mods,

What ABOUT setting a policy or philosophy on the use of screen names?
One for this forum only.
..................................................
I'm posting this openly because I myself bear the taint of obscuring my identity. I've claimed use of a pseudonym for safety reasons (I live where I live, after all), and not a few here have pushed me for full disclosure of everything from my name to my education and the size of my...err, well...whatever.

well, guess what: my name really is Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.
..................................................

What say the forum members?

I'm willing to risk some personal threat and danger if others are willing to risk courtesy and circumspect discourse.

An ID photo avatar and an informative signature line towards providing some background: is that so hard?


Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.
Quezon City
Metro Manila
Philippines

My dear Horge,
Aren't you trying to be Simplicio*** here?

Do you really think that NOW that we KNOW who you are [ do we really??? ] that we will take you more seriously when you write a message like:

Really man, stop embarrassing yourself.

Chris,
I honestly think you should be the one to back off.
You, and Mike, and Jessica, and the others.

You see... there are more pressing concerns that would profit from the valuable energy and thought you've fed to this black hole.

While Kalk at times fills the role of Simplicio to the various Sagredos and Salviatis in this forum,
(hopefully to the enlightenment and education of an unseen audience,) well....

you have more pressing concerns to devote your energy and talent to.

Would it not be better for you to let folks like Chris, Mike, Jessica and "the others" decide for themselves how much time and when they want to pour whatever energy they have into whatever "black hole".
Does it make a difference whether you write such as Horge, or as Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.??? I think not!

Perhaps THEY have reasons which prompt them to challenge one like Kalk.

I fully realize that this is not quite the topic that you started on this thread. But let me explain why I am wasting my talent and engergy on this. Here is my reason:

You, nor anyone else on this forum need to flagellate themselves with statements like "bear the taint of obscuring my identity"!!!!!!

There always have been pseudonyms. And for good reasons. Suggesting that since you now have "uncloaked", everyone else has no reason not to, is rather a navelgazing attitude. I for one would never challenge a single soul into divulging what they would sooner not. An electronic forum such as this one attracts ALL KINDS. I hate to say it, but it will be fair to say that there are a lotta normal people here, a lotta nice people, but that not ALL the people here are "normal" AND "nice".

I have a FIREWALL on my computer for the same reasons. I am not interested in hackers entering MY SYSTEM.
I'm also not interested in wackos entering my life. An ounce of prevention is better than a tonne of cure in that department!

I recognize that there are people who find that less than desirable. Hey I have news for them. I don't find it desirable either! BUT I have learned my lessons the hard way. In addition to that I am an administrator on several electronic forums. NONE require documention of, or actual use of full proper name with or without address. Those who want to may do so. Those who chose not to do so, are free to not "comply". It is called "live and let live". **

Personally I am quite happy to get to know people on a personal basis. But that will by OFF-FORUM.


Now when it comes to mutual respect, there is no reason why people can not be respectful of other people's personal preferences. ANYONE who steps outside the LAW is not gonna be able to maintain their anonymity. So that is not a reason for requiring "uncloaking" in an electronic forum.

I find it much more of a problem that we have a forum with BOTH a moderator, as well as others < they call themselves "admins" I think > who in fact interfere in the threads. [ Mostly based on personal biases, I would say. Nor with actions that are always terribly astute. For instance repeatedly challenging a newcomer on the forum, on matters that have bugger all to do with the discussions at hand. ( Instead of using PMs. )]
This in no way this should be considered a criticism of the moderator. But unless there are some rules that are different here than any other forum I am on, or administer, I would suggest that the moderating be left to the moderator, and that the locking or moving of threads also only be done, if and when the moderator deems it necessary. It is understood that this can only work with a capable moderator. From what I have seen, we have one of those!!!

You have my sympathies Horge, if in fact you have to keep a low profile out of safety concerns.

Ad van Tage, aka
_____________
~ Ecoworrier ~
CAN-EH-DIAN, eh!

"We're all here, cause we're NOT all there"


PS If someone were to sign in as Charles Brown, would he/she be taken seriously? Or would some folks wanna know if he had a dog?

PSS "Outing" someone WITHOUT their permisson, as has happened to some members on this forum, in my book is also a NO NO.
**On my forums that gets the perpetrator axed.

*** http://www.pum.umontreal.ca/revues/surf ... ngers.html

 

[PeterIMA]

Ad Van Tage,

You ask good questions. However, I for one don't trust you or your motives. I advise other members or this forum to deal with your questions (which can be quite penetrating or should I say incriminating) with caution.

We have a number of Canadians on this forum (including myself). Perhaps, you are just a self rightous Canadian (but I doubt it).

Identifying yourself would help to dispell my doubts about your motivations. Mine are to steer the trade and hobby to become more sustainable. What are your motives for spending so much time on this forum?

Peter Rubec, Ph.D.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that being open and honest with one's identity certainly does help to build up a level of trust at a quicker pace. But it is not necessary. Especially when you consider that none of it is easliy verifiable. Boil it all down and we still have to trust each other to tell the truth. I must say though that in some caes it is quite unfair to ask others to reveal information, while revealing none yourself. This kind of dialogue requires a two way street. There are many interests and parties that simply want to shut the industry down so it is quite understandable that those here wish to be certain who it is they are revealing inforamtion to.

 

[naesco]

If someone for any reason does not want to post their name that is their right.
End of story.

 

[Anonymous]

I must say I agree with you both.

 

[dizzy]

Dear Wayne,
Is Advantage the we in Reeform? Is seems to me you came back from exile about the time Ad began posting?

 

[dizzy]

Never mind

 

[clarionreef]

The point is the substance and value of opinion here...not who its from.
Truth and wisdom come from children as well as emperors.
...And immaturity and simplistic, inane notions come from both as well.
If someone needing obscurity got hurt or their career suffered because they dared to offer opinions in a free and public forum it would be a tragedy.
Conversely, there are sometimes rather stupid opinions expressed here whose authors should've hidden their names!
Just because we may have an identity that matters not wether it is made public doesn't mean everyone does.
What if a Philippine fishery official wanted to participate and not reveal his/her name? What about government resource managers? Perhaps funders of an NGO?
One of the reasons this countrys press survives free and independant is because the 'powers that be' never know when nefarious activity may be leaked or passed on by "anonymous sources".
Once a human rights activist in Guatemala revealed evidence of atrocities commited by the military there. At a press conference, the president bellowed...."Who says there are human rights violations in Guatemala? Give me their names!!
We need 'reason' and compassion to make decisions with...not
titles and mugshots.
Sincerely,
XXXXXX

 

[Anonymous]

I do like how you think. (Especially statement #5! Yeah, even if yours truly is to be counted among those numbers.)

 

[dizzy]

If someone needing obscurity got hurt or their career suffered because they dared to offer opinions in a free and public forum it would be a tragedy.

Steve,
That wouldn't be a tradedy at all. It would be a blessing. If someone is in a career that does not allow them to speak the truth as they see it, and they are the type of person who likes to speak out, then they need to get into another field that they will be more happy in. I'm really surprised that I have to point that out to you. I don't really buy into the argument that some crazy hitman is going to come and get us, if they know who we really are. Someone is prolly paranoid from smoking too much dope. If that was the case you would have been offed years ago. :wink: Thanks for showing us the meaning of courage horge. Let's all divulge our names and if the witness protection guys can't play so be it.
Mitch Gibbs

 

[Ad van Tage]

I do like how you think. (Especially statement #5! Yeah, even if yours truly is to be counted among those numbers.)

I had to count back Seamaiden! I reckon that you referred to what

Conversely, there are sometimes rather stupid opinions expressed here whose authors should've hidden their names!

If so, I certainly got a giggle out of that one t :lol: :lol:


Now on a more serious note have you noticed how NO-1 has responded to Len's post, the second one in this list.

I guess I will have to take that one on t :roll: :roll:

 

[Ad van Tage]

I'm fine with a rule regarding single registrations for the sake of upholding the credibity and integrity of discussions. Many other communities have policies that forbid multiple registrations; Reefs.org does not, but I do see the merit in what you're suggesting for this forum. Please realize, however, that this is sometimes hard to enforce if someone's IP is not static.

Reefs.org will already disclose pseudonyms if we're able to positively identify that someone is posting with multiple user names. Our privacy policy does not protect against this type of disclosure.

We aren't going to require people to use ID photos for avatars That can be considered cruel and unusual punishment in some cases

A good faith measure in this forum is for everyone to discuss who they are and who they're affliated with. Reefs.org can't legally enforce or police this, but I personally encourage it. Since we're all here for honest, progressive discussion (or it is my hope), there should be no reason why any should want to hide their identity from the rest of the participants here.

Interesting post Len , coming on the heels of Horge's. Where in Horge's post did you read something about "single or multiple registrations"?

Or did I possibly misunderstand your meaning in "Many other communities have policies that forbid multiple registrations; Reefs.org does not,
but I do see the merit in what you're suggesting for this forum." ? Especially in view of "Reefs.org will already disclose pseudonyms if we're able to positively identify that someone is posting with multiple user names. "***

It - a rule regarding single registrations - did turn on some lights for me however. Have we been visited by those who have multiple personalities on this forum?
I have wondered a few times, but thus far puppeteers with puppets, or ventriloquists who have a dummy that appears to speak for them have not been my obsession.

Could you share with us why you brought up "I'm fine with a rule regarding single registrations" and explain what "abuses" - if any - you have seen?

I for one would like to hear some good reasons.

So long,

_________________
~ Ad aka Ecoworrier ~

*** Where might an uninitiated user find the oracle that defines these Reefs.org forum "commandments"? http://www.reefs.org/delphi didn't work... :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Ad van Tage]

I'm fine with a rule regarding single registrations for the sake of upholding the credibity and integrity of discussions.

PS to my previous post.
Does that mean that JAMESO and JAMESW have been "outed"? :lol: :lol:

Or is it different strokes
for different folks?

__________________
~ Ad aka Ecoworrier ~

"We are all HERE; because we are NOT all THERE"

 

[Anonymous]

If someone needing obscurity got hurt or their career suffered because they dared to offer opinions in a free and public forum it would be a tragedy.

Steve,
That wouldn't be a tradedy at all. It would be a blessing. If someone is in a career that does not allow them to speak the truth as they see it, and they are the type of person who likes to speak out, then they need to get into another field that they will be more happy in. I'm really surprised that I have to point that out to you. I don't really buy into the argument that some crazy hitman is going to come and get us, if they know who we really are. Someone is prolly paranoid from smoking too much dope. If that was the case you would have been offed years ago. :wink: Thanks for showing us the meaning of courage horge. Let's all divulge our names and if the witness protection guys can't play so be it.
Mitch Gibbs

Mitch, as a woman who's blown the whistle once or twice in her life, I can say unequivocally that it is not so pat as to simply find another line of work so they can speak out. It need not be as extreme as worrying about hitmen coming after you with large bags of cement and steel tubs, it can be as basic as paying the rent and feeding your kids.

 

[dizzy]

Mitch, as a woman who's blown the whistle once or twice in her life, I can say unequivocally that it is not so pat as to simply find another line of work so they can speak out. It need not be as extreme as worrying about hitmen coming after you with large bags of cement and steel tubs, it can be as basic as paying the rent and feeding your kids.

Marina,
I think you have courage like horge. Advantage is the one who is worried about the wackos knocking on his/her door. Prolly lives in the BC area and has ready access to the local bud.

 

[Anonymous]

Dizzy, it's not fair to disparage others (the dope comments) simply because one chooses not to reveal their identities. Remaining anonymous doesn't automatically means someone has something to hide.

 

[Len]

Ad,

Read Horge's first two lines which refers to the issue of single/multiple registrations. That is what I am agreeing with. Horge brought it up. I agreed. Simple as that.

If I wasn't clear, I am not of the opinion that people must disclose their real identities. My last paragraph in my first post of this thread was basically recommending people identify themselves and their associations as a good faith measure for honest dialogue. But it's a decision solely up to their discretion. I'm not interested in enforcing this policy.

If it's not clear, what I mean by disclosing pseudonyms is that if Rover (for example) decides to post under the name Bobofet, Reefs.org reserves the right to disclose that Bobofet is Rover. That is all.

And in regards to your second post, James only posts as jamesw on this bulletin board. I do not know what you are referring to.

 

[dizzy]

Glenn,
That was meant to be put out there in a "if the shoe fits fashion". Of course there are other things that can cause paranoid behavior.