When does a non-profit cease being a non-profit?

[Anonymous]

Suggested topic deleted.

 

[Anonymous]

lee

how do you define 'profit' in the context of your post ?

 

[Anonymous]

and: do you make any distinction between soliciting/using public, and private, funds?

 

[Kalkbreath]

And whats to prevent staff saleries from being over six figures ?

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Vitz,

I'd define profit as net gain after costs.

I'm curious to hear the ethical use differences between private funds (i.e. donations from individuals and private trusts) as opposed to government grants.

-Lee

i don't think there are any differences between the ethical responsibilities to one's sources of funding, regardless of where they come from

what do you define as being 'costs', and 'net gain' ?

and in which category do the salaries of the staff fit in ?

how is 'non-profit' defined ? (i.e. what criteria must an organization fulfill in order to be recognized as 'non-profit' ?)

 

[Anonymous]

Suppose we have an NGO soliciting and accepting public funds. They then use those funds to create a coral farming operation and sell the frags for profit with the money going to: enlarging the farming operation, research, ecological projects, social programs, and NGO staff salaries.

When does a non-profit venture become a for-profit venture?

Is it strictly due to the fact that a certain portion of the funds from product sales are rolled back into the research, ecological projects, or social programs; and that no dividends are paid out?

What if the funding supports the creation of domestic U.S. and overseas offices? If the NGO shuttles livestock from the overseas office, where the farming is taking place, to a domestic office for retail or wholesale operations doesn’t that constitute a publicly-funded, vertically-integrated sales chain? What percentage of the NGO staff’s time has to be dedicated to the NGO’s charitable projects?

I can think of at least one entirely domestic operation; and one overseas-domestic operation that potentially fit this model.
What are your thoughts?

-Lee

the red cross comes to mind :wink:

which org's were you thinking of ?

 

[JennM]

Just because a company is "non-profit" does not mean they can't have money left over at the end of a fiscal year. They can allocate those funds to a building fund or other designated purpose.

Profit in the sense of paying dividends is the difference as far as I know.

I have filled out non-profit status applications - you have to jump through some hoops to convince the IRS that your cause is legitimate - but there seems to be a lot of lattitude when it comes to compensating staff, etc.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

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[JennM]

I don't know "who" decides what's fair and what isn't but logically, if someone in a similar position (similar work, similar responsibilities and a similar-sized company) in a "for profit"company is making the same money then I suppose that is "fair". However if somebody in the private sector is doing a similar job for much more or much less, then there's a problem.

The market is going to dictate who can do what job, for what money...

Who the "watchdog" is for non-profits? I have no idea. But it is a pertinent question.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

...and in which category do the salaries of the staff fit in?...

...there seems to be a lot of lattitude when it comes to compensating staff, etc. ...

In light of the whole Richard Grasso compensation thing the salaries of the officers of non-profit groups is a very pertinent topic. How does one deteremine what is fair?

the red cross ceo's, etc get about $500k/yr-is that fair for the workload of running the red cross?

i'm still curious to hear which 2 org.s you were alluding to, lee

 

[JennM]

I'd do it for 400K

Seriously some salaries are truly ridiculous... but hey - if you can work and schmooze your way into that kind of money, more power to you, brother.

I do realize that folks invest a lot in their education and etc. to obtain a position of such prestige, but often times it's a matter of "who" you know as much as "what" you know... still some companies are so top-heavy it's a miracle they don't capsize. Many do.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

i'm still curious to hear which 2 org.s you were alluding to, lee

Why? Do you think those orgs want some free advertising? :lol:

no

i'm just curious as to which ones YOU think fit the model

 

[Anonymous]

They are supposed to be paid the equivalent of what a person working for a "for profit" business would make. Someone heading up a multi billion dollar Non-profit should make the equivalent of what a corporate ceo running a multi billion dollar corporation.

 

[clarionreef]

Chris,
But the corporate model implies results, profit and productivity achieved...does it not?
Corporations...like football teams sack the leaders if they do not produce...and win.
NGOs often have CEOs for many years who fail terribly! [ except for fibs on quarterly reports ]
All they have to do is pull the wool over the eyes of a funder or two every few years and voila! Regular income!
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

i'm just curious as to which ones YOU think fit the model

GARF and CORL.

I might as well say upfront that I do not believe that GARF or CORL are in the non-profit business to get the quick buck. People are sometimes quick to jump to conclusions on these boards and I do not want to people to infer that I'm accusing anyone of malfeasance. I'm not. Thus my hesitation about citing org names.

My thought is that while there are currently two orgs that fit this model more may come in the future. These future orgs may well not have such lofty goals. They may be self serving non-profit groups intended primarily to enrich the principle officers. My questions are: how would we figure out who had gone astray, and, how could we watchdog such operations?

Suppose we have an NGO soliciting and accepting public funds. They then use those funds to create a coral farming operation and sell the frags for profit with the money going to: enlarging the farming operation, research, ecological projects, social programs, and NGO staff salaries.

it's interesting that you think that corl fits that model, seeing as how NONE of the corl staff gets paid by corl, or by donations :? :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

corl has been supported so far from 'out of pocket' of it's own staff