New to the biz - need advice

[PlaneCrazy]

I recently purchsed the remaining inventory and equipment from an established (but defunct) business. I did not purchase "the business" per say, so I had to start over with suppliers and the like. Here's the dilemma:

I talked at length with the previous owner about what supplier to use. I used the one he suggested. I have placed 4 orders with them now, and every one has been messed up one way or another. My biggest complaint is that I get about 50-60 percent of what I order and of that at least 50% has been subbed with another item (usually more expensive). Is this the norm in the business? I have a couple of other suppliers that I could try, but I chose this one due to the fact that the previous owner had fewer losses with this company that any other. If the losses are higher with another supplier, I need to just quit now while I'm still out of the poor house. I have not disclosed the name of the supplier in question for many reasons, not the least of which is I still may need to do business with them, but be assured it's a very large, well known company. I would appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks.

-Aaron

Sea Creatures
http://www.seacreatures.biz

 

[MaryHM]

I'm an importer/wholesaler and you're more than welcome to try my company, Marine Specialties International. As long as you get your order in fast, I can get you a good fill rate. And we don't do a lot of subbing unless you request it. With our company, your salesperson pulls your coral order and there's only one other person who pulls fish. Your order doesn't go through 20 people's hands, so less chance it gets messed up.

http://www.reefsource.com

 

[clarionreef]

Guy,
Just tell em no or few subs.
If your fish are half missing it could be you're cherry-picking them so heavily that the missing fish are predictable.
With many of us wholesalers, a 80-90% fill rate is normal and a no subs request is respected quite naturally.
Can't judge all by the deeds of the one.
Steve

 

[JT]

Umm, Mary? With all due respect, I thought we weren't supposed to advertise ourselves in this forum?

Have the rules changed?

 

[MaryHM]

He wanted advice. My advice was to buy from me. If Glenn wants to delete it, he's more than welcome. The fact that I'm a wholesaler isn't exactly some huge secret in here.

 

[JT]

Oh well, times have changed indeed.

 

[Anonymous]

Say your pitch JT.

 

[dizzy]

Wow plane if I didn't know better I would think you bought out Mark Schreffler when he took the position with MAC. If that is indeed the case I would listen to the advise Mark was giving you. Mark was one of the first retailers to believe 1%DOA/DAA was feasible so he must have been consistantly getting some great shipments. Is the wholesaler you're currently using MAC certified? If I was new in the biz (and informed) I would be operating under the assumption that MAC certification will become mandatory, just in case. I'm not sure what type of business plan you have, but my advise to you and everyone else is to get prepared for a serious disruption in supply. Any plans for large investments in this industry need to factor in the fact that sustainability is going to be a condition of doing business. If I was you I wouldn't burn any bridges back to what ever you were doing before you jumped onto the Titanic.
Mitch

 

[naesco]

I recently purchsed the remaining inventory and equipment from an established (but defunct) business. I did not purchase "the business" per say, so I had to start over with suppliers and the like. Here's the dilemma:

I talked at length with the previous owner about what supplier to use. I used the one he suggested. I have placed 4 orders with them now, and every one has been messed up one way or another. My biggest complaint is that I get about 50-60 percent of what I order and of that at least 50% has been subbed with another item (usually more expensive). Is this the norm in the business? I have a couple of other suppliers that I could try, but I chose this one due to the fact that the previous owner had fewer losses with this company that any other. If the losses are higher with another supplier, I need to just quit now while I'm still out of the poor house. I have not disclosed the name of the supplier in question for many reasons, not the least of which is I still may need to do business with them, but be assured it's a very large, well known company. I would appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks.

-Aaron

Sea Creatures
http://www.seacreatures.biz

Hi Aaron
What kind of DOA (% wise) did you see in this order. What % did not make it in the first week or so?
Thanks

Wayne

 

[Anonymous]

Wow plane if I didn't know better I would think you bought out Mark Schreffler when he took the position with MAC. If that is indeed the case I would listen to the advise Mark was giving you.

Nope, you knew better Mitch. - Without asking the man himself, I've been trying to snoop out who bought what hardware from Marks old shop and I'm really doubtful any of it went as far away as planes shop there. - If you check out planes website he essentially took the place of a shop in his area called Reef Concepts. - Its a bit of a haul away from Marks old place.

Supposedly Mark is giving pointers/tips to another new guy (with less time in reefing than I have) towards getting his MAC certification. - I don't know this for fact though. - One thing I DO know is that I'm not real impressed with the new guy at all..

And I think I know where some of Marks old stuff went. - Kinda split here and there it looks like.. - One looks like it went to one of Marks former employees who just went full-time with her own place. - Real nice woman, sharp too.. - Will probably be giving her my $$ over this other place, MAC or not.

 

[naesco]

Hey AAron

We are interested in the species of fish that they gave you in substituion of the one's you ordered.
What were they?

We are also interested if they subsitutued large fish for the smaller ones you ordered?
It that true?

Thanks Bud

Wayne

 

[Anonymous]

Hey AAron

We are interested in the species of fish that they gave you in substituion of the one's you ordered.
What were they?

We are also interested if they subsitutued large fish for the smaller ones you ordered?
It that true?

Thanks Bud

Wayne

Ummmm, the poor guy is trying to start up a damn shop. Do you think he cares about your question on DOA/DAA?????

Plane: Mary and Steve both are great wholesalers, I would try a couple orders with them.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Actually, my question was if my experience is normal. So far, I have gotten mixed answers. Mary and Steve (whom I will try) both say 90% fill depending on when I get my order in. Excellent. I also have just set up with another large dist. that I am going to try. They also say 90%. I say, show me <G>.

As far as DOA / DAA, well, I would say I lose around 25-30%. It depends on the shipment. When I ordered fairy wrasses, it was more like 50%. Some of the shipments have just been better than others. Corals I've done well with (knock on wood!). I have had only one item DOA (a clam). I believe that it's a catch-22. If I put my order in early enough to get a 90% fill then I lose more stuff. If I wait until later in the week, I don't get the fill rate, but I get hardier goods.

Thanks for the advice, I will be shopping around. It's tough for us new guys. We don't know all the good suppliers, and (as evidenced by previous threads) this information is tough to come by!

 

[JT]

Well, I just shipped to a brand new customer yesterday, mid week, and they only had a one item DOA and a 95% fill.

There's my shameless plug for this thread.

 

[Len]

Mary, JT is right. Let's not post any more commercial solicitation again, please.

 

[JennM]

Well, I just shipped to a brand new customer yesterday, mid week, and they only had a one item DOA and a 95% fill.

There's my shameless plug for this thread.

And I had one DAA - a royal gramma For 7 boxes of fish and corals and inverts, pretty darned good. Fill rate was ~85% (I ordered $980 worth, gave a $1K budget with wiggle room, received $872 worth of livestock).

Nice order overall too, I must say Of course I pick up promptly at the airport too...

25-30% DOA? Unacceptable. You can't stay in business with that kind of ratio. What about DAA? My advice: Get rid of those "big distributors"... do it now... don't wait a year losing your shirt like I did. I can't say I ever had that big of a loss but 10% was what I wrote into my business plan based on what I saw where I used to work... but we're much lower than that now. In my experience (and this is only my anecdotal opinion, I did not do a scientific survey), the big anonymous places cater mainly to the big clients and the small mom and pop gets what's left after the jobbers (and in some cases the dot-com hobbyist orders) and the huge clients have picked it all clean. But those vendors didn't value my business anyway... I'm just a little fish in a big huge pond.

I'd rather have a 50% fill rate and low DOA/DAA than a 100% fill with half of them dying... the most expensive fish is a dead one, and why pay all that freight for dead fish?

Communication is the key. I just started dealing with JT, but he knows me from here and there for probably 2 or 3 years at least and he knows my philosophies. The other dealers I've dealt with, present company included, have learned my likes and dislikes... what to sub, what not to sub... (Damsels, Steve ?! Remember that? *g*)... If there are specimens you don't want, list them... if there are specimens you do want, list them. The more information you give your supplier, the more likely he/she will be able to please you, even if the fill rate is less than stellar - I usually pick my order, note possible subs, wants/don't wants and give a dollar value to set... That way you won't place a $1000 order and end up with $350 worth of stuff because they didn't know what else to send if they were out of what you picked.

When I sent my first order to JT this week, I put notes on the stock list / order form like "sub for size OK" (if I ordered small, a medium or large is OK...) When listing corals, "do not send goniopora, dendronepthya..."... "Do send mushrooms, zoos, few SPS..."

I have found it to be just as important to include a "do send" list, as a "do not send" list... give your sales person something to work with. Once you develop a rapport with a vendor, he/she will know if a surprise will be welcome, or not to do it at all. If your sales person is not hands-on.. run, do not walk, away from that supplier - I once got a salesman at a big wholesaler, who didn't know a yellow tang from a yellow-eyed tang... nor did he know a hard coral from a soft one... needless to say I stopped buying there, PRONTO!

Now I deal with either the owners of the companies I deal with, or those pretty high up. I'm just a little mom and pop retailer, but I can get the quality that the high-brow clients get with the big wholesalers. Since my suppliers don't let jobbers take away all the best stuff, I stand as much chance of getting the cherry stuff, as the next guy - it's all about ordering promptly and communicating with my vendor.

BTW - beware of Naesco... he'll take anything you say and twist it and use it against you, eh? Just ignore him, maybe he'll go away.

Jenn

 

[just dave]

After 10+ years as a LFS with three store expansions and a fourth in progress ( this doesn't nec. point to our success,it may mean that I'm very stubborn and VERY stupid :wink: ) I'd say that a couple of the best things I've done with regards to suppliers is to fly out and visit them and to have a seperate holding facility set-up in the back of the store.
The first allows you to see the animals before you get 'em and can be very telling if you look at the right things. Look at the animals,really look at 'em. If they look like poop ,you know they will only look worse after the arrive at your store. I do look at the whole facility but it's the animals that I'm buying and a foam fractionator large enough to house the starters of your favorite NBA team means very little to me if the animals look bad. I also look to see if the facility is set-up in a sustainable way. By that I mean can the animals in the facility survive and thrive if they are not sold right away and have to hang around for awhile. Don't pick a supplier based just on price. As a very smart man once told me,"The most expensive fish you have are the dead ones." and even if your supplier covers them, they still cost you money.
The second allows you to do a great many things. It allows you to have a place to unload and acclimate your fish in an enviorment that will be less stressful 'n your sell tanks. It allows them a place to recover and regain strength after the long ordeal they went through. It allows you a place that you can evaluate and treat any problems you ID. It gives your store more tank space without having to have it look pretty($$$) like on your sells floor. It also allows you the ability to better judge the quality of your suppliers stock ( this assumes you have everything in order on your end.) by having the fish in your care longer. IMO this is important because it allows you to see other things about the animals other 'n did they arrive alive. My holding facility is larger 'n my selling facility and is getting ready to be increased by 50%( just have to fill 'em up and fire 'em up.) I hold corals as well prior to them going out front ( in a seperate system.)
Should you have any thing else you'd like to talk about you may PM me and I'll supply you with my shops phone number and you may call anytime you have a question. I talk to a few other stores around the country on a regular basis and we disscuss and share info all the time, it's very helpful.

Good Luck