Is it really fair to wholesale and retail livestock???

[Anonymous]

Reply to Coralfarmin,

As someone concerned about coral reef conservation, I don't believe that corals should be cultured in the USA. They should be fragged and grown out in the countries of origin. Growing them in the USA is tantamount to biopiracy. I will be happy to send my TURFs paper to anyone in the trade who is interested (send me a PM).

Furthermore, I think the discussion has deteriorated into a lighting intensity debate. Lighting is not a trade issue, this could be dealt with elsewhere on Reefs.org (not in this forum Industry Behind the Hobby).

Peter Rubec

i've never seen you up in arms about agricultural crops here of fruits or vegetables that otherwise would remain endemic to their respective countries

every u.s. kiwi fruit farmer is a 'biopirate' ??!! string up the mango orchard owners!!

personally, i never accepted that argument-no one has exclusive ownership, or even plain 'ownership' rights to this planet-all we have is control, more or less, relative to other's control, of use via 'might makes right' like any other natural resource

 

[dizzy]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few biopirates in Asia as well. I remember reading somewhere that the American bullfrog was being raised somewhere in Asia because of the abundant supply of maggots. I believe you can get your good old maggot fed frog legs at Wally World. It is totally unfair for the American bullfrog farmer to have to compete with Asia on these American treasures. Where do you draw the line?
Mitch

PS
I believe they can do corals cheaper over there anyway. Let the market place decide these issues.

 

[Anonymous]

We the MO industry give a much higher value to reef uses. If you remove us from the componant, how do you think the locals will use the reef then? You truly don't save a reef by growing a frag in a US based aquarium.

BTW, welcome back Vitz, you liking life down there?

 

[dizzy]

They got free water, free sunlight, and dirt cheap labor I don't see any Americans being able to compete very well. I believe even Horge agreed this is a pretty stupid idea.

 

[coralfarmin]

ocean raised corals wont exibit the same traits as truly captive raised though..imo they are the same as wild and any hobbyist will choose wild larger colonys over smaller wild raised colonies... just imo
like..being acclimated to artifical water,light(when artifical is used),less stable temps and current etc

 

[JT]

We already have Volitan Lions off the coast of North Carolina screwing up the ecosystem, we don't want/need Acropora micropthalma or Montipora digitata weed corals taking over the Florida Keys.

- JT

 

[coralfarmin]

???
If your refering to my other thread..I never had intentions of actualy growing in the ocean
please go back and reread

 

[Anonymous]

The Voilitans weren't "growing in the sea" at the time of there release either

 

[coralfarmin]

I have talked at length with one of the collectors for the fort fisher aquarium at carolina beach..he owns a dive shop in fayettville NC and even set up some of the fort fisher aquariums..as well as another local dive shop
They claim that they spot in deep water alot of fish that youd not expect to be here..we have one of the most popular dive coasts there is and people come from around the world to dive our ship wrecks.

 

[coralfarmin]

here is a link that indicates that they were infact released by aqurists most likely..scroll down to lions on the loose
www.neaq.org/community/seabits/newsletters/02mar.html
also states that 6 where released in key biscayne in florida due to hurricane andrew 1992
Seems if aquarists do it here they would do it else where as well

 

[Kalkbreath]

Lets see , what native attractions are there in the Atlantic?
Boat wrecks sure are popular , but hardly native or natural.
Even most of the" Attractive" corals in the Keys are there becuase of man made activities in the early 1900s.
Seems man made attractions are whats drawing people into the water.
Peoples attention is the only hope the reefs have.

 

[treeman]

There are some great coral heads in shallow water in the keys that are not because of man. There is great patch reefs and reefs at the 100' depth all along the keys. Of course they have been degraded due to many things but they are still good.

I didn't think the coral reefs in John Pennecamp state park were from human activities :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

I didn't think the coral reefs in John Pennecamp state park were from human activities :wink:

So you do realize that the corals grew up after 1904 or you dont?

 

[coralfarmin]

www.sherpaguides.com/florida/upper_keys
they have a great summary on history of the keys..states that the reefs begun forming 100,000 years ago

 

[coralfarmin]

correction 200,000 during the Sangamon interglacial period

its modern history began 1904 it states,not the reefs

 

[treeman]

Here is a qoute from FL DEP.

"Florida's coral reefs came into existence 5,000 to 7,000 years ago when sea levels rose following the Wisconsin Ice Age. Reef growth is slow; estimates range from one to sixteen feet every 1,000 years. "

Here is a link:
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/habitats/coral.htm

The Pennekamp state park was established in 1960 and named after the editor of the Miami Herald due to the help they gave. John Pennekamp state park has over 80% of the coral reefs that exist in the keys.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Scientists dont like to tell the whole truth about history of the Keys. Admitting that many times mankind effects nature in a positive way is something the scientific comunity likes to keep a lid on.
Corals have been around in the keys for a long time . But the large pretty corals that attracts tourists like the Elkhorn and Acros were not around in the 1800s. When the reefs were at their peak and glory in 1970s, they tested the age of the the corals with core drilling.......none of the branching coral heads were older then 70 years. Only the boulder corals like Montatrea were around on the 1800s. Its seems activities in the early 1900s like changing the flow of seawater between the islands by filling in to make the railroad and the draining of the everglades helped create cleaner water conditions then before .The turbidity of the water flowing across keys reefs drastically dropped. Conditions for staghorn, elkhorn, porites were artificially manipulated by man and the reefs responded with coral growth un paralleled for what looks to be the first time in 100s of years.

 

[treeman]

I would love to read the article on that.

 

[coralfarmin]

I'd love to read it as well.

btw..Treeman I may have found 5 acres in Golden Gate Estates for $25,000..not sure if its wet or just Rual or what..just thought you may be interested pm me if you'd like a link..also found 5 acres in lehigh..sold for $100,000 to a realtor who then turned around and resold it for $197,000 the same month,man its amazing to see how even those once 4-6k 1/3 acre lots in lehigh acers go for 18-25k overnight..whats goin on down there???
I have decided to scope out outside Tampa airport now since all the land over there on the south east coast is obserdly inflated and still rising every day

 

[Anonymous]

thx gresham , i'm seeing more of the area than i thought i would be 8O