MAC CAMPs Certification

[PeterIMA]

Mike, Thanks for your insightful comments about what happened between Ferdinand Cruz and the MAC pertaining to the creation of CAMPs. I have copies of the CAMP documents that the collectors associations created in five areas of PI. These CAMPs include detailed underwater surveys and a well documented management plan for the collection areas created largely by the collectors themselves with guidance from the MAC field coordinator (Ferdinand) in collaboration with other members of the municipality and other officials (e.g., BFAR rep). In a paper published during 2003 in the OFI Journal (OFI stands for Ornamental Fish International), Ferdinand and I described how this approach fits well with Philippine law that places most of the management authority with the local municipalities (local government units-LGUs). So for the MAC to ignore these efforts and abandon the collectors (by not certifying their associations) is almost criminal.

I should note that I was asked by the collectors in Palauig (in writing) to assist them during early 2003 (when the MAC came under severe criticism by Mary Middlebrook, the owner of Aquarium Habitat, myself, and Ferdinand etc. on the web). The main point I am trying to make is that the MAC does need to focus first on the collection sites and working with the collectors as Steve Robinson has already stated.

I think that the details of what happened in Palauig with regards to the creation of a CAMP and the MAC Certification process needs to be more fully described. Since Mike Kirda visited Palauig with Ferdinand shortly after these events occurred, I encourage Mike to more fully describe what he learned from the collectors and the MAC representatives he alluded to.

Sincerely,
Peter Rubec

 

[PeterIMA]

PeterIMA wrote:
I initially assumed that what Ferdinand was doing in creating CAMPs was endorsed by the MAC. I was shocked to learn when Ferdinand resigned that the MAC did not endorse what appeared to me to be workable CAMPs (in the five areas where Ferdinand did his work). Instead for reasons I don't understand the MAC certified two other areas where CAMPs were created (Batasin and Clarin off the Island of Bohol) without prior underwater surveys, and without adequate training and participation of the fisherfolk. Ferdinand was not involved in those trainings coordinated by Lino Alvarez (Ferdinand was not informed about them).


Peter,

If the words of one of the MAC folks I spoke with are to be believed, they purposefully abandoned those areas. Why? Because they worked with Ferdinand, and they actually implemented the CAMPs. When the Palauig fiasco occurred, (Due to internal MAC miscommunication, again told to me by the same MAC official), Ferdinand was extremely POed, and helped to ultimately turn him against this organization. He tried for a long time to work within the system to get them to do things right. When he saw Batasan and Clarin get certified so incredibly quickly, without the assessments being done, without the fishermen doing the paperwork, with someone hired by MAC to do it all for them, plus understanding just how depleted the area was already from having visited the area as a potential site before and have rejected it (There is more than one cyanide story in there...), he ultimately decided to leave the organization and expose them. MAC obviously didn't take too kindly to this, and rather than have Lino go out to finish the job in these areas, they chose to cut their losses and abandon them. Again, these are not my words, but someone from within MAC who will remain anonymous.

To me, it is like being handed the keys to a car, but being too lazy to take the bus across town to go pick it up...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

"Ferdinand was extremely POed, and helped to ultimately turn him against this organization. He tried for a long time to work within the system to get them to do things right. When he saw Batasan and Clarin get certified so incredibly quickly, without the assessments being done, without the fishermen doing the paperwork, with someone hired by MAC to do it all for them, plus understanding just how depleted the area was already from having visited the area as a potential site before and have rejected it ...

I HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS DIERECT FROM EX MAC PERSONEL.
The CAMP was a paint by numbers fill in the blanks template....completed by a zero credentialed office guy.
Demanding standards for others...while having such low ones for the self....alienated many of us.
The Batasan and Clarin CAMPs were a sham.
and the fishermans revolt against MAC in Palauig kept MAC from completing the paperwork there to declare it a victory.
Palauig was but the first of fishermans revolts against MAC.

Steve

 

[mkirda]

and the fishermans revolt against MAC in Palauig kept MAC from completing the paperwork there to declare it a victory.
Palauig was but the first of fishermans revolts against MAC.

Steve

It was not a revolt really. Just miscommunication. I was told by the same MAC personnel that Palauig was provisionally certified, as long as something was taken care of by a certain date. However, this information was either 1) never passed to the fishermen themselves, or 2) Never sent by MAC (and/or the auditor, they were not clear on this point...). Regardless, it was simple miscommunication, the sort of thing that happens all the time. And I honestly believe both sides here, and figure that a fax was mislaid somewhere along the line. (My opinion)

From that point, I've heard many different versions of what happened, from at least four different individuals involved. Suffice it to say that the commonality was that the audit would have to occur again (I understood from square one...) and that didn't sit well with the collectors, who looked at this as MAC's fault. If there was a revolt, it started there.

I've heard that Roger is still collecting, and still training others at other sites, but is no longer delivering to Marivi. Beyond that, I haven't heard.

But this is really old news now. I've sort of understood MAC's position re: Ferdinand's areas, in some ways. If you were working someone on his home turf and he turned against you, you would expect his home turf to be poisoned against you too. You'd have to make a calculated decision on whether or not it was worth it to try to overcome the ill will and win over the fishermen. They decided it wasn't worth it. I understand without agreeing. I also think that this set them back at least two years.

Never having seen the Batasan CAMP (despite being promised a copy by the fishermen themselves over the phone), it is difficult to know what happened down there. We know that assessments were not done. (Otherwise, what was the point for MAC to release the document that CAMPS could be finished w/o assessments? The only explanation that makes sense was that in the section of the CAMP document where the assessment was to be they wrote "To be added later.")

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mark@mac]

Mike,

THANK YOU! for your objective comments here. I think you are correct in your assumptions.

I was not around for the "Ferdinand" era, but know that it did set MAC back significantly. We would still like to work in some of those areas as they are obviously good collection areas with much of the work already done, but as you say, there is potentially some ill will still.

I look at MAC almost like our federal government; they may not always do things right, we may often disagree, but we are the trying to do what is right to the benefit the reefs, the collectors and the hobby/industry.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[clarionreef]

Mark writes;
"I was not around for the "Ferdinand" era, but know that it did set MAC back significantly....
Thank you " Mark.

The Ferdinand era was also called the MAC era...the Vosleer era, the Scott era, the Holthus era, the Lino era...all the way up to his resignation a few years back.
They were all one big happy familty. To suggest toherwise would not have been nice at the time.
So much has happened before you arrived that you do not know about or agree with. The question is now, how far they will let you go...before you too resign in protest....or become absorbed.

Steve

 

[clarionreef]

Mark writes;
"I look at MAC almost like our federal government."

You better delete that last criticism of them.
That is the most caustic damnation of the group I've ever heard.

It suggests sloth , inefficiency, $600.00 hammers, 2 thousand dollar toilet seats, politcs and turf minded, career focused , myopic , bureaucratic thinking..
But more importantly, it suggests another 10 years of slowly going down many wrong roads.
S

 

[Anonymous]

and the fishermans revolt against MAC in Palauig kept MAC from completing the paperwork there to declare it a victory.
Palauig was but the first of fishermans revolts against MAC.

Steve

It was not a revolt really. Just miscommunication. I was told by the same MAC personnel that Palauig was provisionally certified, as long as something was taken care of by a certain date. However, this information was either 1) never passed to the fishermen themselves, or 2) Never sent by MAC (and/or the auditor, they were not clear on this point...). Regardless, it was simple miscommunication, the sort of thing that happens all the time. And I honestly believe both sides here, and figure that a fax was mislaid somewhere along the line. (My opinion)

From that point, I've heard many different versions of what happened, from at least four different individuals involved. Suffice it to say that the commonality was that the audit would have to occur again (I understood from square one...) and that didn't sit well with the collectors, who looked at this as MAC's fault. If there was a revolt, it started there.

I've heard that Roger is still collecting, and still training others at other sites, but is no longer delivering to Marivi. Beyond that, I haven't heard.

But this is really old news now. I've sort of understood MAC's position re: Ferdinand's areas, in some ways. If you were working someone on his home turf and he turned against you, you would expect his home turf to be poisoned against you too. You'd have to make a calculated decision on whether or not it was worth it to try to overcome the ill will and win over the fishermen. They decided it wasn't worth it. I understand without agreeing. I also think that this set them back at least two years.

Never having seen the Batasan CAMP (despite being promised a copy by the fishermen themselves over the phone), it is difficult to know what happened down there. We know that assessments were not done. (Otherwise, what was the point for MAC to release the document that CAMPS could be finished w/o assessments? The only explanation that makes sense was that in the section of the CAMP document where the assessment was to be they wrote "To be added later.")

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Either they got the thing or they didn't but I'd believe the local fishermen version over MAC's any day of the week.

I guess it's better to have to back track than to do it the first time. That was bad business on MAC's part and who ever made THAT decision, well.... I'm not allowed to say!

 

[mark@mac]

do you not still live in the U.S. and enjoy all of the freedoms this government has established?

do you not work (and profit from?) within an industry that has exploited the asian reefs for decades? and now it's time to make a change?

we're lucky to live in a country where we can voice our dissatisfaction with the government; some countries shoot you for that.

I'm just trying to do something good. so shoot me for it.......

 

[mkirda]

A quick note. I had dinner with Mark last night, as well as several of the MAC staff.

My impression of Mark is that he is honestly sincere here. We spoke for quite a while on the problems MAC faces, and he was very forthcoming about info on some of the problems they face.

Can he (and MAC) actually make a difference?
That remains to be seen.

However, I do not doubt that they are actually *trying*.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

MAC also has to live with what were in hindsight some very poor decisions made by personnel who are no longer with MAC.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

MAC also has to live with what were in hindsight some very poor decisions made by personnel who are no longer with MAC.

Mike

They may be gone, but the person in charge, still is in charge. He had the final say on everything as he was "in charge". If a football team looses to much, they don't usually blame the players, they blame the coach. If a MO wholesale outfit smuggles and gets caught, the owner/owners are the ones charged with smuggling.

 

[clarionreef]

Mike writes;
"MAC also has to live with what were in hindsight some very poor decisions made by personnel who are no longer with MAC."

Thank you...some of us got it righ the first time & its nice to see validation for it.

Steve