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dizzy

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I hope this post doesn't offend the politically sensitive among us. If so feel free to stick your head in the sand. This sounds a lot like change we may not like. Read it and draw your own conclusions.
Mitch


Why the Obama White House May Go to the Dogs
(and the Cows, and the Deer, and the Lab Rats)

Forget about Barack Obama's income tax-challenged Treasury Secretary or the conflict of interest controversy at the State Department. The most outrageous Obama appointee just might be Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who's flying under everyone's radar and into a job that hardly anyone has ever heard of.

Cass Sunstein is slated to run the White House's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He's going to be America's chief "regulatory czar." And shocking new research from the Center for Consumer Freedom shows that he's a dedicated animal-rights zealot.



Hold on to your sirloin.

The anti-meat nuts at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and the anti-hunting lobbyists at the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) used to think that putting Dennis Kucinich in the White House would be their best hope of wielding real power in Washington . But even they didn't see Cass Sunstein coming. Sunstein has the legal mind of Chief Justice John Roberts and the animal-rights agenda of PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

We're not talking about animal welfare---the idea of making sure we don't cause animals unnecessary suffering when we use them for food, clothing, entertainment, or lifesaving medical research. Sunstein believes in animal rights---the notion that people shouldn't "own" or "use" animals at all, for any purpose, no matter what the stakes are for mankind.

Cancer research? Not if lab rats are used against their will.

Hunting? Absolutely forbidden, especially if it's for sport.

Leather jackets? The cows need their skin more that you do.

Seeing-eye dogs? They're nothing more than slaves.

And that T-bone steak? Fuhgeddaboudit! If animals have any "rights" at all, the right to not be your dinner is at the top of the list.

All of this makes perfect sense to Cass Sunstein, who organized the "Chicago Project on Animal Treatment Principles" at the University of Chicago. He will soon have the political authority to push for a radical overhaul of the way the federal government regulates everything Americans do with animals.

How radical? Sunstein supports making sport hunting illegal, and completely phasing out the consumption of meat. And if that's not nutty enough, he's actually in favor of giving animals the legal right to sue people.

Think we're joking? Think again. Here's what Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book, Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions:

"[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives ... Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."

Conservative commentators have been openly fretting that Barack Obama may try to turn welfare entitlements and single-payer healthcare into a new Bill of Rights. But Cass Sunstein threatens to expand the whole concept of "rights" to include the rest of the animal kingdom.

That fish wriggling at the end of your hook could soon be a federal offense (if the fish doesn't file a lawsuit first). Don't say we didn't warn you.
 
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Anonymous

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I think Obama want to be elected twice more than he wants the animals to be able to sue people.
 

naesco

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Yes it is more dated, right wing political drivel.

But, I warned you that a President Obama and the thousands of young Obama supporters who are dying to change the world will make changes to our hobby and industry unless industry reeforms.

It is now too late. An economically devastated industry can do nothing about it.

But I believe that Americans faced with economic ruin caused by a decade of right wing laissez-faire economic policy will rise up and put the interests of people, their health and their welfare ahead of ideology.
Never again will the corporate welfare bums be allowed to prevail.
 
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Anonymous

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naesco":2bln7nkw said:
Yes it is more dated, right wing political drivel.

But, I warned you that a President Obama and the thousands of young Obama supporters who are dying to change the world will make changes to our hobby and industry unless industry reeforms.

It is now too late. An economically devastated industry can do nothing about it.

But I believe that Americans faced with economic ruin caused by a decade of right wing laissez-faire economic policy will rise up and put the interests of people, their health and their welfare ahead of ideology.
Never again will the corporate welfare bums be allowed to prevail.

How about you just not answer on threads like this since you have no input, nor anything new to say? You where not and are not the only one to say that so you can wipe the smug look off your frozen face (I and others said it as well ;) ). Do you really think this industry is devastated? Well you are wrong, again. The company I work for is booming as are many others I speak with nearly daily. You really have no clue so just shut up PLEASE.
 

naesco

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I am happy that the company you work for in doing so well in these difficult times.

The point of my post was for you to stop burying your head in the mashed potato and be cognizant that Obama's youth following will make changes if industry does not.

I posted my concern many times before but instead of heeding the warning
you chose personal attacks or failed political commentary.

Cheers!
 
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Anonymous

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naesco":ktfxagc3 said:
I am happy that the company you work for in doing so well in these difficult times.

The point of my post was for you to stop burying your head in the mashed potato and be cognizant that Obama's youth following will make changes if industry does not.

I posted my concern many times before but instead of heeding the warning
you chose personal attacks or failed political commentary.

Cheers!

I bury my head in mashed potato? Huh? The cold is getting to you :lol:

Yup I berate you in hopes you will never post anymore dribble. I posted YEARS before Obama was even a thought that if the Dems got the WH we would face stiffer regulations. Welcome to 2002 Wayne :lol:

I don't need to head any warning from you. We're doing just fine as are many companies I speak with. You really have no clue about this "industry" Wayne. I speak to a ton of people daily and I always ask how business is. How many do you speak with on a daily basis? Monthly? Any that matter besides the LFS you son sells CN juiced fish from? (your words, not mine)
 

Twisted1

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From what I have been reading this industry changes all of the time, not always for the better, but always changeing.

What is it that you are afraid the "Obama fan club" might change on you?

I don't know as much as most of the people on these forums, but I can honestly say every industry in progress right now needs dramatic changes, and they should begin soon.

Every hobby I am asociated with has certain aspects of goverment gunning for it, and certain idustry leaders fighting it.

Video Games: Parts of our past goverment have, and in some cases still do wish to start banning some games, they have started placing ratings on them for maturity.
They publish what your average "gamer" will claim is unjustified documentation that video games create anger issues, and promote violence.

Cars: Some small goverments <one county in Texas, and one on the east coast somewhere that I know of> have created a law that you can not work on your car in your own drive way short of general <non mechanical> maintence.
Some areas have added on to the RV restriction in nieghborhoods to make it so that you can not park RV's, Boats, or ATV's, or muscle cars in public view.

Fishing: Well, there are so many new laws going into effect for fishing, boating, or any other activity on local lakes that I wouldn't know where to begin.


Hobbies are hobbies and it is the end client that will make or break the hobby, as long as suppliers can bring in stuff worth buying, at a price that they can afford, then the hobby will keep chugging along like any other.
 

dizzy

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Twisted":2pyqwxw7 said:
What is it that you are afraid the "Obama fan club" might change on you?

Sunstein believes in animal rights---the notion that people shouldn't "own" or "use" animals at all, for any purpose, no matter what the stakes are for mankind.

Well for starters Twisted, if that line of thinking (above quote) gets much traction I'm likely to find myself in the unemployment line along with most of the rest of the regulars to this forum. Our issues are not likely to have much of a high priority with President Elect Barack Obama (PEBO) given the poor economy, the wars, gays in the military, spreading the wealth, gitmo, gun control, et al, so they will probably be handed off/delegated to Cass Sustein to deal with. If he was some lone kook it would probably be a better situation, but by all accounts he is a brilliant lawyer and he appears to share the radical views towards animal ownership with many others in PETA. PETA may well see this as opportunity to lobby to shut down the importation of all animals from the wild, which would be devasting to the industry and the hobby imho. I sent that same letter/article to PIJAC so they can be aware of the potential threat Cass Sunstein's appointment may have on the pet industry in general. Having your hobby neutered might well be irritating, but losing a livelyhood that has clothed and fed your family for 24-years, (in my case) is not a prospect that I take lightly. This may or may not be a battle that can be won, but we should at least be armed with information we can use to make good judgements regarding our futures. This may be the time for Race Foster to step up to the plate.
 

naesco

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So it begs the question.
Why did you allow this to happen?
The writing on the wall was apparent some time ago.
Why did US industry not take steps towards reeform?

What immediate steps towards reeform can industry take that deflects this lawyers interest towards other matters?

If you continue to do nothing I agree with you. Get in the bread line.
 
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naesco":ch8130bd said:
So it begs the question.
Why did you allow this to happen?
The writing on the wall was apparent some time ago.
Why did US industry not take steps towards reeform?

What immediate steps towards reeform can industry take that deflects this lawyers interest towards other matters?

If you continue to do nothing I agree with you. Get in the bread line.

No level of reform will stop someone like this. They are for end of every pet.
 

Twisted1

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I can only slightly understand what you are talking about Dizzy.

I am on the opposite side of the chain from you, I am retail, not collection/import, or even wholesale.

But can you seriously think that such a drastic change can take place?

I can see them putting more regulations in place, i can see them possibly putting limits on some more species just to make themselves feel better.

But honestly, I come from a long line of hunters, and a huge hunting community, and I can tell you right now, the fact that they put a ban on certain guns barely effected the hunters, most hunters don't use assault rifle to track a deer.
The fact that they put regulations on what we can hunt, when we can hunt and where we can hunt it, has yet to kill hunting.

But if they flat out told this community that they can not hunt deer anymore, that it is against their rights.
A lot might just turn to hunting politicians.

Of course I have said the same thing about many laws that have infringed upon our rights, and been wrong.
I can see why someone might be concerned, but I don't think I would be too afraid right now, with the economy the way it is, I don't think Obama will be killing off anything that actually cycles money right now.
 

nemo24

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Hunting is a privilege, NOT a right. Privileges can be taken away, rights cannot.
You have a right to " keep and bear arms " ( some arms ),
however, you do not have a right to hunt anything, hunting is a privilege.
 
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Twisted":2s0mr0oe said:
I can only slightly understand what you are talking about Dizzy.

I am on the opposite side of the chain from you, I am retail, not collection/import, or even wholesale.

But can you seriously think that such a drastic change can take place?

I can see them putting more regulations in place, i can see them possibly putting limits on some more species just to make themselves feel better.

But honestly, I come from a long line of hunters, and a huge hunting community, and I can tell you right now, the fact that they put a ban on certain guns barely effected the hunters, most hunters don't use assault rifle to track a deer.
The fact that they put regulations on what we can hunt, when we can hunt and where we can hunt it, has yet to kill hunting.

But if they flat out told this community that they can not hunt deer anymore, that it is against their rights.
A lot might just turn to hunting politicians.

Of course I have said the same thing about many laws that have infringed upon our rights, and been wrong.
I can see why someone might be concerned, but I don't think I would be too afraid right now, with the economy the way it is, I don't think Obama will be killing off anything that actually cycles money right now.

Dizzy runs a well greased LFS Twisted :)

Glad I got my Mini-14 years ago. Better go get a hand gun now.
 

dizzy

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Twisted I'm a retailer as well. Just google Cass Sunstein and be aware of who he is. There is some speculation that Obama is bringing him on board to help control, possibly censor internet content, with sort of Fairness Doctrine approach. He is a brilliant lawyer and former class mate of PEBO but some of his ideas are pretty far out there. Perhaps if we are lucky he'll have bigger fish to fry than our little ol' industry. I don't know what he has planned I only put this out a heads up.
Mitch
 

Twisted1

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nemo24":259jgef3 said:
Hunting is a privilege, NOT a right. Privileges can be taken away, rights cannot.
You have a right to " keep and bear arms " ( some arms ),
however, you do not have a right to hunt anything, hunting is a privilege.

Actually you are wrong. hunting falls under the right to provide for your family.

The goverment can not tell you that you can not provide for your family by hunting. But they have taken it upon themselves, claiming that in order to maintain a population of each animal they must regulat the amount it is hunted.

The same goverment who claims that it must take a stand against our stupidity and force us to wear helmets, seatbelts, and refrain from useing our cellphones while driving.
The goverment has gone from "We the people, for the People" to "Those people who have to keep an eye on us people"

I for one have disagreed with the goverment body on more things then I can count ever since the regan body.
And honestly I think I may have just been too young to understand all of the things regan did.

But every goverment body since that time has offended the constitution, the american people, and a large portion of the world in general.

But what will the american people do about it?

Nothing.......

Why? it would take a full scale civil war to attempt to change anything that matters, and in doing so, I think we would all be destroyed by North Korea, or Cuba, or some other third world that still has a beef with us and small arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, if they took advantage of an internal struggle they could eliminate America as a threat.
 

Twisted1

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dizzy":2xrwj80v said:
Twisted I'm a retailer as well. Just google Cass Sunstein and be aware of who he is. There is some speculation that Obama is bringing him on board to help control, possibly censor internet content, with sort of Fairness Doctrine approach. He is a brilliant lawyer and former class mate of PEBO but some of his ideas are pretty far out there. Perhaps if we are lucky he'll have bigger fish to fry than our little ol' industry. I don't know what he has planned I only put this out a heads up.
Mitch

Thanks for the heads up, while I doubt we will see anything that will effect this industry large scale, you just never know.
I expect the full strength of the Obamanation to focus on the economy, he is going to have to pull out a pretty good miracle of sorts during his 4 years, if he has any hope of getting elected again.

I hope that the people are watching, and I hope that sometime soon, those same people will understand what the goverment has evolved into, and will stand against it, but I don't think I will see it in my life time.
 

nemo24

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Hunting for your family is not a Constitutional Right. Read the Constitution of the United Sates or try shooting an eagle to provide for your family.
 
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Anonymous

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Guys, lets keep the heated discussions on topic in this forum. :D If you want to debate hunting rights, please post in the Sump - there are a ton of hunting threads there. Thanks.
 

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