Questions: Slowly converting to Bare Bottom

[pEEshEE]

Changed my mind- keeping the sand.

I was hoping someone could give me some feedback about switching over to bare bottom. I recently acquired, from a friend, a 90 gallon RR tankthat was primarily a FOWLR setup. The problem is that the 3-4" DSB my friend was using is a mix of crushed coral, shells, and other various live sand, which is probably why I can't seem to lower my nitrates below 30-40ppm.

Over the past week or two, I've pretty much changed out almost 85 gallons of water with no reduction in nitrates. I changed about 40 gallons when we moved the tank over to my place. I tested the nitrates - 40. 2 days later, I started to change 5 gallons/day for the next 4 days at which I tested the nitrates again...30-40.
The rest of the water parameters are within optimal ranges. I started to slowly transfer over some coral from my nano tank from day one, mainly softies, and all is well so far. I also dropped in one squamosa from my nano, and also so far so good (actually in my 25 gallon sump/refugium).

I've decided I will start to slowly siphon out some sand every week with water changes.

My question is for a 90 gallon, how many powerheads, and how much flow should I have for the bottom of the tank? I plan on upgrading to a metal halide in the near future with maybe a few sps thrown in whenever I can get my nitrates down. Currently, I have a Yellow tang, Saddleback clown, Algae blenny, Arceye hawkfish, and a juvenile Clown trigger... yes, yes, I know the Clown trigger is a no-no... but he's the main reason why I got the bigger tank. It sounds crazy, but I think I can train the little bugger to behave. So far, he's hasn't even touched any of the snails, crabs, or sand sifting star, and hasn't nibbled on any of the coral... so we'll see how it goes. (If he starts to turn into the mean fish he's pegged out to be, then I'll make a decision at that time)

I was also maybe thinking of just keeping a small amount of sand, just to barely cover the bottom, for aesthetic purposes.

Any recommended brands for powerheads? Flow rates?

Thanks.

 

[Deanos]

Going barebottom tips

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria

 

[pEEshEE]

Awesome, thanks!

 

[reefman]

don't b surprise even bare bottom u may still have 40ppm nitrates. there may be other contributions to this. assuming ur test kits r reliable.

 

[pEEshEE]

I guess I should retest my RO water before I make the move... but what other factors might be contributing to the high nitrates?

 

[PVsPlayhouse]

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]A dead fish in the tank that you cant find. Or anything else that mite of died. What you can do is run a powerhead through all your rocks and see if anything is there. It will also kick up anything that mite be laying on top of the sand. Put in a filter sock or something to get anything that comes up. Change your water after you are done. Then do 25% water changes a week for a month that will bring it down.
For Flow if you have a SPS tank it should be 30 to 50 Turns per Min. If softies you should try for 20 to 30 turns. You should not have direct flow as well. I would use a Tunze. If to much then get a Seou (SP).
I would keep the sand not only for looks but for all the little life that is in there. You can do a sand bed of 2 to 3" But I would have at least 3".
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[pEEshEE]

Cool. Thanks for the reply. I just did my weekly water change of 25-30 gallons, but this time, I siphoned out about 10lbs of substrate. I checked nitrates, and for the first time since I took possession of the tank, nitrates fell to 20ppm! I'll check in a few days to see if it remains stable. If so, then I'll siphon out a bit more next week... if not, I'll take out even more sand, I guess.

I'll update on my progression.

 

[tangerine]

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]For Flow if you have a SPS tank it should be 30 to 50 Turns per Min. If softies you should try for 20 to 30 turns. You should not have direct flow as well. I would use a Tunze.
[/FONT]

not sure i understand this. 30-50 turns per Min?? as in turnovers? if so,how to get this kind of turns?

 

[PVsPlayhouse]

not sure i understand this. 30-50 turns per Min?? as in turnovers? if so,how to get this kind of turns?

Yes, Trunover sorry about that. You take the amont of flow in your tank and dived it by tank size.
EX. GPH/Tank size. So if you have 3000GPH in a 100gl tank you are getting 30 turnover in a hour. I made a mistake in my last post it is 30 to 50 turns per hour.

 

[ShaunW]

Cool. Thanks for the reply. I just did my weekly water change of 25-30 gallons, but this time, I siphoned out about 10lbs of substrate. I checked nitrates, and for the first time since I took possession of the tank, nitrates fell to 20ppm! I'll check in a few days to see if it remains stable. If so, then I'll siphon out a bit more next week... if not, I'll take out even more sand, I guess.

I'll update on my progression.

I personally don't think you should convert to BB slowly. You need to do it quickly without any corals present in the tank.

Once you introduce oxygen to the deeper layers of the sandbed your going to have a HUGE die off in anaerobic bacteria and potential release of H2S. This will affect your coral in a negative way. IMHO.

 

[ShaunW]

How old is your sand bed? since with an active DSB your nitrates should be lower not higher.

BTW what corals are you going to keep in your BB system, since a BB tank is not easier than a DSB, nor does it reduce nitrates directly! The nitrate reduction occurs from constant vigilence in remove dendritis from the tank and having huge flow and a powerful skimmer present in the system. SPS tanks benefit most from BB systems.

 

[tangerine]

Yes, Trunover sorry about that. You take the amont of flow in your tank and dived it by tank size.
EX. GPH/Tank size. So if you have 3000GPH in a 100gl tank you are getting 30 turnover in a hour. I made a mistake in my last post it is 30 to 50 turns per hour.

that's what i thought you meant but was kind off puzzle by the turns per min. so was wondering how to achieve that kind of turnover.

 

[pEEshEE]

When we moved the tank over from my friend's place, we removed the sand from the tank and placed them in buckets... and then put the sand back in when we got everything over to my place. Do you think that may have caused such a high nitrate reading?

I checked nitrates again today, and it still reads 20, which is still alot better than 40, so I'm going to do another 30 gallon water change in a few days.

As far as coral, I only have a few polyps, mushrooms, pagoda, & kenya tree for now. If I can get my nitrates down, I plan on upgrading to metal halides and increasing the flow in hopes of keeping some colorful SPS.

Hopefully after siphoning out some more sand during my next water change this week, the nitrates will go down to maybe 10? Fingers are crossed... but I'm in no hurry. I'm kinda broke right now after spending a fortune on my sump, but hopefully in a months time, I'll be ready for some good stuff.

 

[PVsPlayhouse]

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]There probably was a lot of die off in the sand when you transferred it over. but I would leave the sand, A DSB helps get ride of Nitrates not raise them. If you are haveing that bad of a problem get a nitrate sponge to help bring it down. You still need to do the water changes but at least it will lessen the stress on the corals.
[/FONT]

 

[drunktank]

how long was the sand in the bucket. When removing a sand bed you should have washed it out. What probably happened was his DSB was full of life, once disturbed the gasess and die off producted large amounts of trates which you transfered to ur tank.

 

[pEEshEE]

how long was the sand in the bucket. When removing a sand bed you should have washed it out. What probably happened was his DSB was full of life, once disturbed the gasess and die off producted large amounts of trates which you transfered to ur tank.

Thanks for the reply. I believe you're correct. After about a month of having this 90 gallon setup, and weekly water changes of about 25 gallons, I seemed to have gotten my Nitrates down to 10ppm. My two previous water changes, I siphoned out some sand, and although the nitrates went down to 20 from 40 the first time I siphoned sand out, the second time around, it did nothing, keeping the Nitrates at 20.

Today, I did another water change without taking out any sand, and I rechecked, 10! So it looks like I'm slowly getting there. It probably was all the die off from the sand and rocks. I think I may keep the rest of the sand... we'll see.

Here are some before and after pix for everyone's viewing pleasure.

First week:

Second week:

Third week, after siphoning out some more sand:

I'll post one that I took today with the metal halide upgrade after I resize the image.

Thanks all.

 

[pEEshEE]

Sunpod Metal Halide

and the best fishy in the entire universe... for now.

 

[remy109]

congrads on the setup, thanks for the miracle mud btw.
Did you get your powerhead/pump yet?
I just setup the Seio M1500 into my 70Gal. I would actually recommend it.
Keep me updated on the trigger's mood. I'm still in the process of setting up the fish only tank filled with various types of triggers =)

 

[deelucky]

man looking nice. maybe after x-mas i might get ready to upgrade

 

[pEEshEE]

Thanks guys. I actually had this Clown trigger in with a Niger and Rectangle all about the same size for about a month, and it didn't work out... I mean, they were in a 20, so space probably had a lot to do with it.

I know that the Clown trigger is supposed to be pretty tough, but he was the most passive one out of the 3 triggers.

Even now, in the 90 gallon, we backs off when the Saddleback Clownfish steps up! Most would be pretty upset that they got a submissive Clown trigger, but I'm hoping he stays this way for a long time.