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yukon11

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I'm getting some different opinions from some LFS. Maybe you can help.

I have a 42 gal. I would like to have a mixed tank. Some live rock, basic coral life, Anemones and mostly fish. One shop says easily done the other says it hard to mix the two with more fish which I’m not sure about.

This is the equipment I was thinking about going with.

Sump w/mechanical
Protein Skimmer in sump
Compact Fluorescent Lightning - 50/50
150w Heater
Live Sand ½ in. only
Tonga Live Rock
And the other basics like power heads etc.

Or do I go the wet/dry route with bio balls to help control the waste still using the skimmer?

Is this a NO way don’t do it or do I need to re-think my equipment?
 
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Anonymous

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yukon11":13ujm609 said:
I'm getting some different opinions from some LFS. Maybe you can help.

I have a 42 gal. I would like to have a mixed tank. Some live rock, basic coral life, Anemones and mostly fish. One shop says easily done the other says it hard to mix the two with more fish which I’m not sure about.

This is the equipment I was thinking about going with.

Sump w/mechanical
Protein Skimmer in sump
Compact Fluorescent Lightning - 50/50
150w Heater
Live Sand ½ in. only
Tonga Live Rock
And the other basics like power heads etc.

Or do I go the wet/dry route with bio balls to help control the waste still using the skimmer?

Is this a NO way don’t do it or do I need to re-think my equipment?

A mixed coral/fish tank is doable with the equipment you've got, but you need to provide some more info. You said something about mixing corals anemones with "more fish" How many fish do you have at the moment? It's true that it's a bad idea to overstock, partly because coral tolerance for nitrates etc is mostly substantially less than for fish.

I"d avoid the wet/dry route if I were you (they are known to produce ntirates in small quantities after a while) and stick with getting yourself the best skimmer and most live rock you can afford. A lot of people economise on the skimmer, only to find themselves buying a decent one later, and the money on the budget option intially purchased ends up being a waste. If you tell us what your budget is for the skimmer, we can recommend good models.

As to the fish only/fish with reef question, there are lots of variables involved. If you only want to buy compact fluorescents (as opposed to T5s or metal halides), then you'll be restricted as to what corals you can keep (and what anemones), but that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're just starting out. Think of it as a learning period. :wink: For corals stick with relatively hardy types like leathers, zoanthids etc.

A word of caution about anemones. You won't be able to keep anything but the bubble tipped anemones under compacts (someone else might know better than me on this, but I'm pretty sure that's right). But also important is that it's a very bad idea to put any anemone in a tank when the tank's under 6 months old (and don't add it at the same time as lots of other new stock when you might a temporary spike in nitrates). They need extremely stable water conditions and if you rush this you could end up with a wipe out and potentially the dead anemone polluting your tank. Not saying don't do it, but as with eveything else in this hobby, it's important not to rush in.

Final word: you're doing the right thing asking questions before leaping in. Keep asking!
 

ChrisRD

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I just skimmed the article briefly but it looks like the basic point is that it's better to setup a fish-only system more like a reef (minus the strong lighting). I agree with that notion - IME I've had more success with fish health and less instances of disease that way. IME a system based around live rock/sand + a good skimmer for filtration results in less maintenance and better water quality than the older fish-only type setups that relied on other forms of filtration such as wet/drys, canister filters, etc.
 

yukon11

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Awesome!!! I was hoping to hear that answer. I had an African setup for year’s... extremely healthy, lots of babies, low maintenance and I owe it all to a forum just like this (http://www.cichlid-forum.com).

The tanks not even setup yet. I'm gathering the knowledge first and gonna start ordering equipment this week. I've order from Big Al's in the past. Any better online shops that I should look at?

Anemones were something I'd like to do but I will wait and take your advice on the correct species... Thank :D
 
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Anonymous

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Well done for coming here first! Much easier to get things right the first time than to solve problems later (as many here discovered when they first set up a tank - myself included :wink: ).

Be aware that a reef tank takes quite a bit more work than a freshwater one, but it sounds like you're going to be ok, given the research you're doing. :)

BTW, books you might want to look at include Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals book, which is a classic. Lots of background info, great pictures and care guidance for lots of coral. Scott Michael's guide to Aquarium Fish is also very useful.

Welcome to the hobby!
 

scifi_3d_zoo

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One thing to keep in mind is you shouldn't have plans to put a "lot" of fish in with corals. More fish, more food, more waste from the excess food and from the poopin fish. Not a good situation for corals. Plus the most beautiful fish tend to potentially nip or outright eat corals.

In my setup I've found some small fish to work very well... purple dotyback, green chromis (x4 b/c it looks kool when they school), royal gamma basslet, 6-line wrasse, mandarin goby dragonette, neon goby, orange diamond goby, might be something else in there? It's a 100 Gal tank. Note... these are all small fish. 1" to 5". So the point I want to make is you're not gonna be adding a whole lot of fish to 42 gal. Now, I also have a couple of other fish... Flame Angel, Maroon Clown. Angel requires more greens for his diet, and a clown may not do well without an aneome. And anybody will tell you here that aneome's are a pain in the ass. They're hard to keep, they keep moving all the time, and they'll harm your other corals. I had a clown swimming in one one time a couple of years ago for a short period of time till something happened.. and since then I've tried MANY times to duplicate it. You gotta make some choices. If you want an aneome then you will have to sacrifice on what else you put in the tank... corals and fish. Aneome's can eat your fish too.

My suggestion... look at those fish I mentioned above. There are many kinds of wrasses and other fish too. The ones I picked are very colorful, easy to find, cheap, reef-safe, non-agressive. Be careful mixing fish of the same species too. You can check out places like www.marinedepotlive.com and www.liveaquaria.com to get info on fish and corals. Continuing with my suggestions... I'd stick with those types of small fish that meet my criteria... and look around for a diff. wrasse if you want. There's tons of them. Another kool fish that is good is hawkfish, red type my fav. Problem is they may go after your "shrimp" if you don't keep him fed with ghost or marine feeder shrimp. And shrimp are kool. You definitely want to have some shrimp. So watch out for fish that eat shrimp.

That's the easy part. Corals are another story. With such a small tank I'd keep it simple. Some corals don't like a lot of light so arrange your rock so you have an overhang or two to put them in. Some require strong light so put them at the top. Hardy corals are ... plates, leathers, gorgonia trees are hot, pulsing xenia, brains, mushrooms, polys (buttons, zooanthids, ricordia). I would take your time and only put one thing in at a time every 1-3 months... waiting for something that looks nice to come along in your local shop. Another reason for this is to allow for your bio-load to adjust and for the coral itself to settle in. Often it's good to put things at the bottom for a week or two and work it up closer to the lights to where you want it to be. Especially true if you have strong lights. It sounds like you will have average lights.

I'd keep up on trace elements too, especially calcium so your coralline algae can grow on your rock. Shrimp need iodine to molt. Maybe you can find an all-in-one additive. You should start off slow with all of this, test your water weekly, constantly adjust your feeding to find the right amount.
 

yukon11

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Great advise.. I will follow the timeline and fish suggestions. No rush needed so I'll take it slow for the better results! Thank You..

I just setup my tank up dry and getting my RO water ready...

My final equipment is:

46 Gal bow tank
-Sump and overflow w/ mag drive 500
-Deltec Skimmer MC500 in sump
-3 powerheads: 2 hagen aquaclear 30's and 1 hagen aquaclear 50
- Compact lights
- Live sand 1 in.
- 40-50 lbs live Tonga rock - already selected and on hold (my LFS pulled some prime rock from there show tanks for me... Sweet)

I am not up to speed on trace elements and additives needed for SW. Can you provide specific brand names and how often there needed?

Much appreciated...... Thanks!
 
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Anonymous

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I'd be hesitant to rush into dosing lots of trace elements myself. There is continual debate about whether they're actually needed and you should get all these from your salt if you do regular water changes. If you start keeping hard corals (which you shouldn't in the early days), you may well need calcium supplementation above and beyond what can be replenished from water changes. There are a number of methods to achieve that, but you can research that later. Essentially calcium reactors, kalkwasser, and dosing calcium additives are the three best known.

Dosing calcium additive might also be helpful if you start having problems with ph, however.

I'd echo what scifi_3d_zoo said about starting slow and testing your water regularly. If you find something's being depleted too fast/you're having problems which might be related to missing elements then you can start thinking about dosing.
 

SnowManSnow

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A good rule of thumb is that if you can't test for it... don't add it. The only thing I add on a regular basis to my 37G reef is a product called B-Ionic. It doses Alk and Ca in = parts. I wouldn't even worry about dosing Ca though for the first few months. Just let the thing cycle.

An old man on the mountain once told me, "Make haste slowly!"

Good luck!

B
 

scifi_3d_zoo

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I've been doing this for about three years now and I'm just an average basic guy... I ain't no aquarist. I've killed a lot of stuff. :twisted: Muhaha I've seen some stuff split and grow too... altho I'm sure it wasn't b/c of anything I did. Maybe more to do with what I didn't do.

That's kool that you got some prime rock. It's taken me quite awhile to get the coralline algae to grow myself. That's why I've been adding CA. You gotta watch some of these trace elements if you have clams, etc. things like that. Otherwise... like the other guys said... don't be a sucker like a lot of people and go out buying all these damn bottles of crap. It's like a womens shower with a 100 bottles of diff. shampoos.. that's what your fish cabinet will look like. Once things get established and you start adding stuff like clams, etc. then you can start watching those things more closely like Iodine, Calcium, etc. For now concentrate on Phosphorous, Nitrates, Nitrites, Amonia, etc.

Bow tanks are really kool. Live SAND is awesome. A good skimmer will make a world of diff. You got it all there. Power compacts good.

Another thing is... if you're not gonna go crazy with crazy with corals yet... just have fun with some fish... maybe something hardy like mushrooms or xenias... and just do all the right things and the water will take care of itself. Don't overfeed. That's one of the BIGGEST problems I think. Fish act like they are starving all the time so people tend to feel sorry for them or something? :cry: Not me :evil: let em scavenge. I've tried alot of various feeding methods too. I always end up coming back to just holding a cube of food with my hand and taking it in and out of the water. Control the release of food and let them eat as much as possible without a lot of it floating around settling in your tank... or it melts too much and turns into too fine a particle for the fish to eat. That will screw up your water quality. So for now... just think about stuff like that and learn to take care of fish, keep water quality high, practice using test kits, do water changes, etc. And things will take care of themselves to a large degree. I think I killed myself in the beginning by testing the water over and over and over. Burned myself out. Gotta give it 4-8 weeks to cycle unless you can get some cycled water, ready to go bio media/filters. Some fish are pretty hardy and you can add them during this period if you must. Another thing people might tell you to do is... use fish to help you cycle. Whatever you do don't use those "damn" damsels unless you plan on catching them later. They're mean buggers and won't tolerate other fish. Just use green chromis or something else if you must. Watch for other things you might want to remove in the beginning too... stuff that comes on-board with rock like... Mantis Shrimp. Had one of those once. SOB was hard to catch. We had to wait till we broke the tank down for other reasons to get him. Traps wouldn't work. When we got him we finally put him in a glass and poured hot sauce in it. Adios muchacho. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2281
 

yukon11

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All this info has been great... Thanks for taking the time.

Quick update.. The tanks been up and running for a couple weeks. I’m getting another 40 lbs LR (Marshall and Kaelini Tonga) delivered tomorrow. I plan to post some pics this weekend to show the progress.

I have some hermits and Mexican turbo’s running around. Tests are all in line but I think this new LR will change that.

I have some brown coral growths on some of my rock that have come up. Not sure what they are. Any ideas?
 
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Anonymous

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yukon11":2kt5x09p said:
All this info has been great... Thanks for taking the time.

Quick update.. The tanks been up and running for a couple weeks. I’m getting another 40 lbs LR (Marshall and Kaelini Tonga) delivered tomorrow. I plan to post some pics this weekend to show the progress.

I have some hermits and Mexican turbo’s running around. Tests are all in line but I think this new LR will change that.

I have some brown coral growths on some of my rock that have come up. Not sure what they are. Any ideas?

It'd help if you could post pics. Identifying what you've got from your description might be bit of a stretch (could be anything from macroalgae to a sponge, to a mushroom coral etc etc :wink: ).

If you can't get a photo for whatever reason, have a look at the hitchhiker ID sticky here, or here http://www.melevsreef.com/id/ and give us a link to the picture that closest resembles what you have.

HTH,

Tom
 

yukon11

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I've also had 2 hermits that have come out of there shells and died. Is this cause the tank is too new or lack of food?
 
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Anonymous

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yukon11":4231ewqw said:
I've also had 2 hermits that have come out of there shells and died. Is this cause the tank is too new or lack of food?

Yukon, those might actually be molts rather than dead hermits. Hermits shed their exoskeleton periodically to enable themselves to grow. Just after shedding, they're soft and vulnerable and may be hiding away, leaving what looks like their body out in the open (but which is in actual fact, just the old shell).
 

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