First Post -- New Tank Design

[Cosmic Charlie]

Hi everybody. I've been lurking for some time and i'm now ready to test out the water for myself.


My wife and I are getting ready to start the design on refinishing our basement and we really want to put in a saltwater reef.

The room it is going in is large (~1200 sq ft) and we are planning to put the tank in the wall with the back of the tank and all the works in the unfinished area.

We were thinking a 72x24x24 size tank. We plan/want to do many types of hard and soft corals, clams, inverts and a few easy and hearty fish (ie. Tangs, OC Clowns, etc). We're not really interested in tricky or super rare fish, we just want a really vibrant and colorful reef to be the centerpiece of the room.

Here are my questions:

-- We've never touched saltwater before. Our largest freshwater was 55 gallons (cichlids). Are we insane/irresponsible by doing such a large tank to start with?

-- We're prepared for the expense and we're interested in design ideas on doing it "right the first time". Emphasis on keeping maintenance simple and promoting the ultimate health of the tank is paramount.

Thanks in advance!

 

[SnowManSnow]

hey man...
lemme say welcome to REEFS! this is the best board out there

I won't go into great detail about what I would do with a 72incher, but there are a few things you will need that will make your life easier. I too went from fresh to salt a few years back (kept firemoouths) and here are some things that you probably dont have that you'll need for salt.

You mentioned that you weren't into rare fish and so forth (thats cool) but want a vibrant reef for the room. The thing is that in FW the fish are the center of attention, MOST OF THE TIME, in a reef the corals and inverts are the attention getter. So, you'll need to plan on equipment that will sustain these kinds of things. Here are a few suggestions,

1) you will need an RODI system
2) youll need a good protein skimmer (some ppl claim they dont need them, but they are CLEARLY the exception to the rule.. just budget for one now)
3) IT CAN be done with VHO, but in order to keep hard corals and clams you will PROBABLY want to go with MH lighting (metal halide). I swaped over a few years ago, and have never looked back. At 72" you may want to consider a few 400w DE pendants (run around $350 per pendant) I've actually been looking at Hamilton Reefstar Pendants for a tank upgrade im going for.

Finally, if i had any advice, as one newish reefer to a newbie :lol: id say "make haste slowly"! Move slow, it will take a few months to get things in order to house fish and corals once your water is in.

OH, and BE VERY careful what advice you take from LFS's some are great, but some dont have a clue.

GOOD LUCK AND WELCOME!

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Thanks snowman.

Yeah, we'd be in no rush. We're looking forward to the actual setup of the "works" of the tank so no worries there.

I should have provided a bit more info first but I was hesitant to make a big long drawn out post. So here is the rest of my initial thoughts/plans.

--Display Tank: 72x24x24 glass tank (unsure about how to get the water out to sump though)

--Sump/Refugium: 50 gallon (using an existing glass breeding tank) It will sit behind the tank in the unfinished basement area and be lit on an alternate schedule of display tank. I anticipate the display tank to spill over onto the refug though so I dunno how that will affect it.

--Lighting: Three 400 Watt 10,000K metal halide lamps. Two VHO lights to give the corals color. A few moonlights. Captive Fixtures has one that looks pretty cool that I could hang from the joists of the unfinished area.

--Filtration: Some sort of big protien skimmer. I originally wanted to put it outside the sump but it appears many people put them inside.

--Pump: I want to try to do some sort of closed loop (details on this are sketchy for me though) where I can use an external pump (Iwaki people seem to like it seems) to keep water flow high.

--Chiller: Trying to avoid and hope I can pull that off.

--Ozone: Trying to avoid. Want to try to do it naturally if at all possible.

--Water changes: A high capactiy RO/DI system close by that maybe I could hopefully tie into a nearby wetbar to get filtered water for my soda-pop dispenser. There is a rough in'd drain available nearby to facilitate changes as well.



I think the biggest thing I'm needing to bone up on is the design of a closed loop system. Links to good systems up and running would be appreciated. Also, how to get the most turbulence inside the display tank.

Some opinions on quality manufacturers of reef gear would be appreciated as well. The only thing I'm pretty sure on is the Iwaki pumps, the rest seems to be pretty diverse. (i'm sure some of this can come down to a ford v. chevy debate and that's not what i'm trying to provoke... heh)

 

[SnowManSnow]

haha the tank im upgrading too will have a closed loop and a sump. There is a post in the general discussion concerning sump drainage and closed loop in the same aquarium that you should read and chime in. Maybe the questions I've already asked can help you out!!!

B

 

[cindre2000]

Since SnowmManSnow did not do this:

:welcome:

I think i will (woot, first time ever saying that)!

When I set up a tank, there are a couple of key areas I like to think about:

1.a) Livestock/theme
1.b) Tank Size

2.a) Flow/plumbing
2.b) Lighting
2.c) Filtration

3) Everything Else

Once these are decided on, you can start putting the tank together.

Barebones- Themes and Space

What sort of coral are you looking to keep? Anything in particular? With thee 400 watt Metal Halides, I assume you are looking to keep lps, and sps. Which usually translates to a lot of flow and filtration.

As you can see, you need to know before hand what you want to make or grow; and you need to know what kind of space you are working with. You seem to have some idea of what you want to keep and a good idea of the space you are working with. I think you said you are going to put in a fishroom?

The Essentials:

2.a) Flow/plumbing-

The flow through your sump determines how quickly the filtration cleans your water. 10 times the volume of your tank (in gph) is usually a good estimate; however, small sumps tend to limit your flow. I like to make the sumps as big as the can get. Rubbermaid containers work great.

The rest of the flow in your tank is provided by powerheads, closed loops, or a surge device. This flow can easily be 20-30 times your tank volume (in gph). Since corals need certain types and amounts of flow, it is very important for you to get the flow right.

2.b) Lighting-

Light determines what coral you can keep, what color that said coral turns, and how quickly photosynthetic plants and animals can grow. Three 400 watt Metal Halides for a 72" by 24" tank is correct. I would put in four VHO rather than one and to balance the metal halides just a bit more. But since the metal halides provide the growing power, the color is completly up to you. The higher the kelvin rating, the bluer the bulb.

As for bulb choice, and where to get the set up... I do not really know, ask around on the boards. I am just a cheap college student and bought the cheapest 150 DE fixture I could find on ebay. Remember that the balast has as much to do with the output as the bulb!

2.c) Filtration-

This is where it gets interesting. Everyone has their own fool proof methods that work for them. I find that a good old protien skimmer with a marco algea refugium works great for me. In fact, I am going to get a little creative when I revamp my sump this summer and put in a anemone detritus trap/sponge bed.

Just remember, if you have fishroom, you can always add a couple rubbermaid sumps for extra filtration; one can be a settling section with a deep sand bed, followed by a protien skimmer, then a macro algae tub with chaeto, finally with a frag tank right before the sump. Just do a little research and figure out what you believe in and can incorperate. (P.S. Most people swear by a GOOD protien skimmer)

Everything Else

Everything else probably should be considered afterwards. They are not less important, they just rely on all the above information to plan properly. You need to know how many electric devices you will have running before you worry about temperature. And you need to know how you are working your plumbing before you add an auto top off.

Just continue to post as you work out your plan, everyone will be glad to critique and assist your planning and building stages.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I'm thinking for the types of corals I keep will be somewhat progressive.

I was planning on starting out with softs, lps, and mushrooms and then later on once my skills improve and my tank matures jump into the polyps, sps, and maybe a sea fan.

Fishroom? Not per se. But I will have a unfinished area where all of this gear can go.

I have seen reference to the rubbermaids for sumps, any link where I can see them in use? I can't find the person's tank here that used it... it was what originally inspired me to keep all the gear in an unfinished area.

 

[cindre2000]

http://aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=164947

I just did a search on google. There was a really good picture I once saw with like 8 rubbermaid containers with metal halides on them and mangroves and stuff. But this will do.

 

[Anonymous]

Good advice has been given already. IMO for a 24" tall tank 400 watts MHs are not required. I do not think it is wrong to go with them. You will get good growth and color with 250's. The only exception you "may" have to make is to keep the extreemly light demnding corals off the bottom. I had a 24" tall tank with 250 watt MH and every thing was fine. I am in process of setting up a 26" deep tank and will be using 250's.

 

[ChrisRD]

I agree with Mark. On a 24" tall tank, especially if you plan to go with 10Ks (which tend to have plenty of output) and if you're doing a mixed reef where light requirements will vary depending on the animal, I would go with 250 watters. With good reflectors that will provide plenty of light to keep anything you want.