VegasDealr

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I've always made sure my F/O tanks were at zero ammonia before I added any fish. I had to set up a hospital tank last night. My ammonia is tonight at 1.0 I am doing a water change as I type this. I am wondering at what level do I start to really worry, and is 1.0 toxic to the point of immediate death. I've never had fish in an enviornment where ammonia was even detectable. I'm also medicating with copper. Obviously I'll need to add more copper when I finsih the water change. I have heard stories of copper poisening. I don't want that. So how much would one dose to get back to the correct level of copper med without a copper test kit?

VegasDealr
 

tatertot

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VegasDealr

I'm pretty sure that the coppersafe med is self leveling. So you can't really put too much in. It will stabalize itself. I'd say that anything over .5 ammonia is high. I'd do a 20% water change and keep close tabs on ammonia. Copper medicine is cheap, so its no big whoop if you have to buy more.

Christine
 

vp39

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First, how old is your test kit? Sometimes they go bad on people without realizing it. I would start by taking a water sample to your LFS and let them test it for you. Have them test for copper also. Is there a particular reason you are adding copper to your tank? If you dont need it why put it in tank.
Glenn
 

Minh Nguyen

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tatertot:
<STRONG>VegasDealr

I'm pretty sure that the coppersafe med is self leveling. So you can't really put too much in. It will stabalize itself. I'd say that anything over .5 ammonia is high. I'd do a 20% water change and keep close tabs on ammonia. Copper medicine is cheap, so its no big whoop if you have to buy more.

Christine</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a horible advice. There is NO such thing as a SELF-LEVEL COPPER MEDICATION. Too much and you kill just about everything.
If your tank had 0 ammonia before and now have a ammonia level of 1( assumed correct), then you have something died in your tank. In this case, most likely the mortalities are the inverterbrated in the LR and or LS killed by the copper. Even in a FOWLR tank, using copper is asking for trouble. If the tank is a small hospital tank, and the fish load is too large, there is no biological filter, thus you have the amonia level. Water change is need to lower this. event 100% water change from the main tank is OK as long as the temperature and salinity is matched.
I don't have any advice for you. Just have to reply to tatertot's post.

[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Minh Nguyen ]
 
A

Anonymous

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If it is a hospital tank, how about using Amquel or some such product in there (assuming the test is correct)?
Is this bad advice, folks?
 

John@Carline

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First off, the Salifert test is free form Ammonia I believe, in which you should strive for less than .5, This equals out to be about .02 in NH4(ammonium) which is about the max you can go before damage is likely to the inhabitants, so you are right on the border line Vegasdude, again too ph also plays a factor in this(in which lower ph will be to your advantage). A tip for you though, I think hospital tanks are a waste of time and only add more potential stress to a fish who is moved from his "normal" tank, to another "new" environment. I have never had any outbreak of disease in my tank, which I think may because of NSW(natural strength sea water 1.025-1.027)which aids the fish in fighting disease, and also have a pair of cleaner shrimp, which I now feel play a huge role in your tanks health too, its like having a lil doctor on permanent call, and they do work very well, IMO rather spend $20 on a cleaner shrimp than countless dollars on chemicals, the only chemical i have bought is basically Lugol's solution and have only used it once to dip an already plagued hammer coral. I think though that when you move fish from tank to tank the whole treatment/hospital tank idea is detrimental from its own merits. I have never had one, nor will I ever in the future, I think the best medication for fish is, good water conditions, stress free environment and its own immunity capability.

[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: John@Carline ]
 

VegasDealr

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The hospital is necessary and essential. But thanks for the advice. I'd never put copper in my reef tank. The fish are starting to look better now, and I'm glad I got them out when I did. Thanks everyone for the help.

VegasDealr
 

John@Carline

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I wouldnt say its nessecary and essential, our LFS here( www.inlandreef.net ) actually doesnt recommend em,at(Matt&Tom) least never recommended them to us. I can see stores using quarinteen tanks for many purposes, but the home user I would think it adds more potential problems than it can solve, though Im sure there may be some rare instances where a quarinteen tank is necessary. But I look at it this way, the fish goes through the most stress when being moved from tank to tank, so you basically stress a fish out more when u move him from your own "display" tank into the quarinteen tank, then you medicate him, more possible stress here, then after he gets used to the tank you end up moving him back, again more stress. Its a "lose/lose" situation IMHO. If a fish is getting hit with a disease do you think he would rather be "home" where he's most comfortable, or at some strange "hotel"?? Same analogy for us, if you yourself were sick do you want to be sick at home or on the road at some strange place?? Another thing to consider too, my mom(and actually my doctor)has told me when I was younger thats its best to take as little "external" medication as possible, as it makes your immunity system strong, but when your immunity system becomes "dependant" on all these prescription drugs, asparin's flu meds etc, it naturally weakens and becomes dependant on these external sources to help better the body. Better to let the fish tough it out at home in bed IMHO.
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VegasDealr

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Thanks but wrong. My fish was within hours of death. Adding copper to my reef wasn't an option. However. Thanks to my quick reaction and getting them all into the hospital tank, the fish has already resumed normal respiration, and most of the outbreak is gone. He's not about to die now, and THANK GOODNESS FOR HOSPITAL TANKS ! If your about to die, you don't sit in your bed thinking "Gee I'm glad I'm at home where I feel safe in my enviornment." Thanks for your help. But I'll pass on the no hospital tank logic. And my fish, being that they all got to live rather than perish in their happy home also prefer the hospital tank.

VegasDealr.
 

VegasDealr

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the ammonia is 1.0 in the hospital tank. Not in my reef tank. I did a water change last night. I won't over do the copper. I am just going to have to let the tank cycle. Its a new tank, but I needed to get my fish out. My blue tang was very sick and I wanted to save him.

VegasDealr
 

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