How many retailers and wholesalers keep fish sep

[Anonymous]

I have a question for retailers and wholesalers.

How many of you keep fish seperate from LR and corals?

I always see fish with corals at the 5 LFS I go to here in Miami. Usually a yellow tang, presumably to munch the algae from the coral tank. I have even seen sick fish sequestered to the LR tank! :evil:


This frustrates the hell out of me, since I have to refrain from adding new corals so I don't bring in a fish disease.

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to just keep fish out of the system the corals and rock are in.


Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

I had to vote to see results, so I voted yes, since that's what I would do.

 

[JennM]

I answered yes, however...

I do put the occasional fish in the coral tanks, mainly larger fish because my coral tanks are over 7' long and bigger fish enjoy the larger swimming space. I keep corals and inverts together, fish in the FO system, and live rock that is curing, in a system unto itself. I do have some live rock in my coral system too, but the rock is not for sale. Rock for sale is in a separate curing system.

HTH

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I had to vote to see results, so I voted yes, since that's what I would do.

you can see the results w/out votin :wink:


every store i've worked in always had the 2 seperated

 

[Anonymous]

Same here, including separate filtration systems.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, typical hobbyist, leaving out half the COC (chain of custody). If your that scared of disease, you'd better include them (exporters/collectors) as well since your livestock is kept in their systems :wink: . Yup, mixed, bettter get out your antibacterial soap and wash .

 

[Anonymous]

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to just keep fish out of the system the corals and rock are in.

It doesn't seem that hard for others to quaratine their livestock prior to introduction into their reef system.

Whats your answer to having medicated fish sytems and fish that can't be medicated? (hint: adding another system ISN'T the correct answer to any of these questions)
How bout fish that require fine substrate BUT your fish system is medicated and you will only use oolitic instead of fine ground broken glass, I mean silica based sand? Being that your medication gets sucked up into the oolitic, what do you do?
How bout your exporter dumped a ton of fish on you and you need to thin them out so they don't die? Should I simply kill the extras as not to possiably introduce a fish disease that MIGHT find its way to a hobbyist whom doesn't q his/her livestock?


My reef system brings back weak fish. My reef system allows some fish to graze all day long at fatten up after being nearly starved to death overseas so they'd ship better. It's hell of a lot easier buying and maintaning a hobbyist level tank then running a wholesale facility or retail store. Most of us are walking a very fine line and we need all the space we can use.

 

[JennM]

My reef system brings back weak fish. My reef system allows some fish to graze all day long at fatten up after being nearly starved to death overseas so they'd ship better. It's hell of a lot easier buying and maintaning a hobbyist level tank then running a wholesale facility or retail store. Most of us are walking a very fine line and we need all the space we can use.

I totally agree with this statement. About a year ago I received a unicorn tang with some funk on his face (ich, perhaps... something nasty!). Rather than nuke him with Cupramine, I put him in the reef system with a bunch of cleaner shrimp. They cleaned him up in short order, and I took to spoiling him by hand-feeding him nori. Couldn't bear to part with him then, so now he's in my 120 :lol: He'll eventually go in the 1000 when he gets too big.

I usually put the frailer species in the coral tanks. I don't carry Mandarins as a rule, but I will order them for somebody with a suitable system for one... can't put them in the FO (read: devoid of pods) system... they need to go in the reef to live.

I've never know of corals to carry fish diseases, or vice versa, so I'm not sure why it would even be an issue.

You cannot medicate a coral system, of course, and you can a FO system... hence my need for 3 systems... live rock curing system, coral/reef/inverts system and FO (read: can nuke it with copper if the need arises...) system.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to just keep fish out of the system the corals and rock are in.

It doesn't seem that hard for others to quaratine their livestock prior to introduction into their reef system.

Whats your answer to having medicated fish sytems and fish that can't be medicated? (hint: adding another system ISN'T the correct answer to any of these questions)
How bout fish that require fine substrate BUT your fish system is medicated and you will only use oolitic instead of fine ground broken glass, I mean silica based sand? Being that your medication gets sucked up into the oolitic, what do you do?
How bout your exporter dumped a ton of fish on you and you need to thin them out so they don't die? Should I simply kill the extras as not to possiably introduce a fish disease that MIGHT find its way to a hobbyist whom doesn't q his/her livestock?


My reef system brings back weak fish. My reef system allows some fish to graze all day long at fatten up after being nearly starved to death overseas so they'd ship better. It's hell of a lot easier buying and maintaning a hobbyist level tank then running a wholesale facility or retail store. Most of us are walking a very fine line and we need all the space we can use.

An interesting perspective, although stated in a slightly defensive manner. :wink:

I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking about what happens to the fish, what's in teir water, or how much rock and sand they are in with...I'm talking abou the rocks and corals you are turning over on a weekly basis to customers.

I see no reason why the coral holding tank has to have fish thrown in it. What you said about a reef like environment bringing fish back is probably what my LFS owners think, because I often see the worst looking sickest fish in the rock and coral tanks. :roll:


QTing a light hungry coral is not that easy foir the hobbyist. It requires keeping a small tank temp and chemistry stable and buying a small PC fixture to put over it...PITA. I'm ordering a small PC ficture right now for just this reason.

If I could find a store that kept their corals without fish, I would be buying from them from now on.

 

[JennM]

QTing a light hungry coral is not that easy foir the hobbyist. It requires keeping a small tank temp and chemistry stable and buying a small PC fixture to put over it...PITA. I'm ordering a small PC ficture right now for just this reason.

If I could find a store that kept their corals without fish, I would be buying from them from now on.

I still fail to see the connection between fish diseases and corals - if you can show me that, for example, corals can transmit cryp or lymphocystis to a fish, I might take notice, but otherwise, I don't see the issue here.

Most people don't quarantine corals, that I am aware of (heck most don't quarantine fish, but that's another post!) if they are in doubt, they shouldn't purchase, but at the very least, many use a Lugol's dip to disinfect before adding to their display.

Jenn

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

An interesting perspective, although stated in a slightly defensive manner.

Sorry, its hard to get that damn tone outa my voice when on the net :?

I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking about what happens to the fish, what's in teir water, or how much rock and sand they are in with...I'm talking abou the rocks and corals you are turning over on a weekly basis to customers.

As am I. I will put fish in my stock coral tanks, but never with curing rock.

I see no reason why the coral holding tank has to have fish thrown in it. What you said about a reef like environment bringing fish back is probably what my LFS owners think, because I often see the worst looking sickest fish in the rock and coral tanks.

I don't use them as a hospital tank though, these fish are just skinny or have a wound. Sick fish get treated and dipped prior to being introduced to the coral system. If your LFS is throwing in diseased fish in the hopes a non medicated reef system will being it back, thats scary, and I am that does suck!!

QTing a light hungry coral is not that easy foir the hobbyist. It requires keeping a small tank temp and chemistry stable and buying a small PC fixture to put over it...PITA. I'm ordering a small PC ficture right now for just this reason.

When I've done that in the past, I kept a 10g running with a very small goby to keep the cycle. Just prior to inroduction of a coral our fish to the Q tank, I'd do a water change on my main system and use that water in a change on the Q tank. That helped me keep my parameters fairly close. Yah, the light deal sucks as does the added cost of keeping a Q (especially here in California :evil: )

 

[Anonymous]

Jenn, Steven Pro related to me not too long ago an article that he used in his research regardin C. irritans. The author seemed to find some evidence that C. irritans is more easily erradicated in systems with no naturally occurring substrata or "decorations", and tended to re-occur more easily in systems with dead coral skeletons or rock. The theory she postulated was that PVC, acrylic, et al man-made non-porous materials gave the protozoan fewer "footholds", whereas the rock and other natural materials likely allowed just this. Therefore, it would be easy to extrapolate from this that if a coral has been in a system demonstrating ich, there is a chance that some protozoans may have found a foothold somewhere on or in its skeleton.

I know that Anthony q/t's his corals, and strongly recommends doing so when advising others, and he and Bob seem to feel that the coral can withstand a period of lower lighting during this q/t period. A dip in Lugol's is considered a must. (Trying to find the query on WWM about the guy who had a large coral wipe-out from some small nudibranch.. but not much time for that today.)

All that being said, none of this negates the hobbyist's need to quarantine, always.

 

[Anonymous]

QTing a light hungry coral is not that easy foir the hobbyist. It requires keeping a small tank temp and chemistry stable and buying a small PC fixture to put over it...PITA. I'm ordering a small PC ficture right now for just this reason.

If I could find a store that kept their corals without fish, I would be buying from them from now on.

I still fail to see the connection between fish diseases and corals - if you can show me that, for example, corals can transmit cryp or lymphocystis to a fish, I might take notice, but otherwise, I don't see the issue here.

Most people don't quarantine corals, that I am aware of (heck most don't quarantine fish, but that's another post!) if they are in doubt, they shouldn't purchase, but at the very least, many use a Lugol's dip to disinfect before adding to their display.

Jenn

Jenn

Lots of fish diseases reproduce by attatching to hard surfaces...like a stony coral's skeleton or the rock a soft coral is attached to. So ich, for example, could hitchike in on a coral skeleton or rock. Which is why I worry when I see sick fish in the coral tanks.

What kind of dip is that?

 

[JennM]

Hmm well unless everybody quarantines everything in a stripped-bare-sterile tank, at every step of the way, it's impossible to guarantee that anything is totally free of any/all pathogens.

Having said that, IMO and IME, good suppliers, good husbandry and low stress are the best preventions for illness.

Quarantine of fishes is advised to be sure, we dip corals, but the vast majority of hobbyists do not quarantine, even perhaps they should.

I don't sell anything I wouldn't put in my own tank - I'll keep it if I'm in doubt (hold it for somebody, 'in case'). Guess not every vendor is as cautious.

Jenn

Jenn