Paul B

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There are actually two very different methodiologies to run a reef tank. I am not talking about dosers, controllers, bio pellets, etc. I am talking about either qurantining everything or not quarantining anything but keeping everything immune. There are advantages and dis-advantages of each method.
I will start with the benefits of quarantining. Of course the theory here is to keep disease organisms out of our tanks by keeping the fish, corals and every thing else we put in our tanks seperate from the rest of the livestock for a long enough period where we think parasites would live out their life cycle. At the end of the parasite's life cycle, if we don't see any new parasites, we assume there are none and the fish can be acclimated to our tank. In a quarantine tank we will also examine the occupants to see if we notice any disease organisms or problems so we can then medicate for that particular problem. Some people medicate the quarantine tank for parasites and bacterial infections just to make sure the creature is healthy before exposing it to the existing livestock. ( I used to do that years ago) Many people believe that a new fish is stressed and life in a quarantine tank would be better because that fish can be hand fed and kept away from possable bullies. The fish can be fattened up without having to contend with faster fish that were in the tank longer and would steal all of the food. That, as we all know is the theory of quarantining.


Now for the disadvantages of a quarantined tank. Virtually all quarantine tanks are much smaller and less decorated than a real reef. The hiding places will be something like PVC elbows, glass, flowerpots or pictures of your girlfriend. The circulation will be much different than the fish is acustomed to as will be the lighting. We will "dote" on the fish more and no matter how good looking we think we are, the fish do not like looking at us all the time with no where but a PVC fitting to hide in. The fish will have no place to forage or feel secure. They will also have to stay in this small tank for a long period of time, usually 72 days. Almost all fish like to look for food continousely, even if they just ate. But if kept in a smaller, bare tank for an extended period, they stop looking for food as they know there isn't any. They will develop a blank look on their face from boredom. OK, stop laughing. If you don't believe me, lock yourself in your bathroom for 72 days with just some PVC elbows to look at. Then look in the mirror and see what you look like.
The main disadvantage of quarantined fish, is they lose some or all of their immunity from everything. Immunity only lasts so long if the fish is not exposed to a disease organism. This immunity varies with the species. This may not be much of a disadvantage in a tank where everything is quarantined because the fish should never be exposed to a disease organism in such a tank. But the fish will "never" be as healthy as it could be because a fishes immune system helps the fish stay healthy even if it is not exposed to a pathogen. Also when a fish spawns, the female fish passes that immunity to it's fry to keep it safe until it grows it's own slime with it's associated immunity just as our babies also pick up immunity from their Mothers which protects them until they are exposed to pathogens and can develop their own immunity. Also fish, like us depend on bacteria in their guts to digest food. It has been shown recently that fish (and us) depend on that gut bacteria for general health. A quarantined fish will only have the bacteris in it's gut from it's food. And in a quarantine tank, that food will be sterile because we would not want to feed live food to a fish in quarantine for fear we would add pathogens. Of course the biggest concern is accidently introducing a disease organism into a tank of fish with no immunity. You can easily find a plethora of tanks that crashed to disease even though they have been quarantined.


Now I will discuss the benefits of "not" quarantining and keeping the fish immune from disease. At first this seems silly and as so many people point out this is like playing Russian Roulette. I have never been to Russia so I can't comment on that. But the benefits of having immune fish are many. We can buy a fish, coral or crustacean and after a short acclimation, put it right in our tank. We can also collect natural sea water or creatures from the sea that we may want to use as food such as amphipods, worms, snails etc. If our fish are truely immune, we will never have any use for medications or a hospital tank. These fish will be healthier than quarantined fish (all else being equal) because the fishes immune system does more for a fish than our immune system does for us. An immune fish will never get sick. It may get a swim bladder disease, popeye or have an accident, but it will never become infected from bacteria or parasites. If it does, it was not truely immune, now was it?


Trying to get and keep fish immune also has disadvantages. First off all the fish we buy are stressed and maybe all of them have some sort of malady, either in the form of parasites or bacteria. Even if the rest of our fish are immune, the new one is not and may succumb to disease after it is introduced to the tank. The new fish may be weak and scared so it may not find enough food. If the fish we buy was at the dealer's for a long time it was probably swimming in water treated with copper or antibiotics as many dealers have to use such measures to keep fish healthy "looking" until they are sold. Those fish will all have a very weak immune system and if our tank was not quarantined there will be parasites, viruses and bacteria sitting there just waiting for such a fish. So the introduction phase of a non quarantined fish has it's dangers and we may lose some fish. I have not found this to happen but I can't explain why. I can, and do add fish from all different places including the sea and never in over 35 years have any of them ever had a disease. But to keep fish in this condition they should be fed either fresh or live food such as clams, fish or the best thing live blackworms. Frozen foods would be the second choice but dry foods shoulsd be used very rarely or not at all. It is not that dry foods are bad or they don't have the proper nutrients. It is that they are sterile and will not allow the immune system to recognize a threat and make antibodies against it. Much of a fishes immune system is in it's slime and the correct foods "with" it's associated bacteria are necessary to get and keep a fish immune.


Of course if you don't believe in immunity, (or Bigfoot) you just wasted ten minutes reading this. And should stop calling me names. I also think that newbees to this hobby should "always" quarantine until such time where you can recognize subtle problems with fish. This can take a number of years and is not an overnight thing. As I said quarantining has advantages and is easier to do for a newcomer to the hobby. Many tanks of fish have been lost to disease and fish with a weak immune system will sicken and die within a day or two. It is not easy to tell if your fish are immune and only experience will tell you that. But if you started the hobby one or two years ago, feed your fish mostly dry food like flakes or pellets and your fish are not spawning I can quarantee they are not immune and you should be careful and quarantine everything.
Now I know the majority of people do not agree with me. I did not write this to be agreeable. I wrote it from the experience of doing this for six decades. I could be wrong and would like to hear your thoughts and opinions. You can even call me names because I am old and probably wouldn't understand those names. Also my birthday is on Christmas Day so I am in a good mood and no amount of name calling will change that.
 

jackson6745

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I agree with you 100%, However, I can see a quality QT tank useful for getting finicky feeders to eat without the competition of more aggressive eaters.
 

theMeat

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Of course immunity has something to do with it but......
-Has more to do with a fish's natural defenses. Like thickness and quality of slime coat. Some types of fish have better, some don't. Regardless of stress, diet, whatever.
-do you have, and how much coral/filter feeders are in your tank that can eat Ich and other parasites.
-sand sifting fish and/or others that consume egg and live parasites
-uv sterilizer
-200 or smaller micron filter

In a fowlr if you have Ich it will eventually kill some or all fish. unless some action is taken. If an adult parasite has 100 babies, the numbers quickly build too big for most fish to deal with. In the ocean the baby swims up looking for a host and often doesn't find one, and instead dies. In a fish tank it finds one, and the population explodes. Unless you have somethings working to curb it.
 
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BioMan

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I understand what you mean because I just read an article about how tank bred fish arent that desirable because of (pages of reasoning pros and cons here) so a quarantine tank is more or less the same. I dont quarantine any fish.truthfully if the salinity is a match I only temp acclimate them, only lost fish to natures fury or carpet jumping. I have kept them in a seperate tank just to get them to eat though (3 clown tangs later....)
also good write up.
 
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I observe/ quarantine all fish, but about 2 months ago, had a ich break out form coral frags I picked up at a retailer out in LI (what are the chances, first additions I made in 3 months) anyway since ich slipped in, I still quarantine ( have a bucket full of fish now) to prevent any new ich strains from invading, and am attempting to induce immunity in the new fish with my old ich infested tank water in a controlled environment, before placing them in, since I plan on waiting for the ich to die out in 9 months (or 20 something generations, I forget the number, which ever comes first)

I am currently scooping out fish that look weakened for treatment in a temporary 20 gallon Rubbermaid tank, which may end up being holding tanks till the ich dies out next summer. I'm not really worried about the damsels and zebrasomas in my tank, but was surprised to be missing a butterfly, and had a Kole tang stop eating and get beaten up. Both fish were at the bottom of they respective totum poles.
 
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Paul B

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TheMeat, immunity has everything to do with it. If the fish are immune from parasites, it doesn't matter how many baby parasites are in the tank and the presence of parasites is actually what allows the fishes immune system to become stronger so parasites do not affect them at all. I like parasites because I know they are a natural part of a reef and evolved alongside fish so fish have natural defenses against them. Almost all captive fish are not fed correctly which is the reason for all the disease threads. Fish have a very good immune system against parasites and should never be affected by them as my fish are not. It all has to do with the bacteria in the food and the pathogens in the water that the fish are constantly exposed to. I wrote this about slime if you are interested.
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/marine-fish-heal-through-slime-3962/
 

theMeat

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Interesting article Paul. You seam to be a smart guy who's got a lot of experience, an open mind, and have been paying attention. Although you might be slightly obsessed with super models.
My experience has shown me different. Yes, have seen some tanks which seem to be "immune" to disease, sorta like magic, which leave a person scratching their head. My only conclusion is there's some luck mixed in with a that magic. Because have seen some of these tanks that have good luck, that only feed dried foods. As well have seen other well established "lucky" tanks which feed the way you describe suddenly and for no other reason other than a new introduction get disease to run rampant. Go figure. Have also seen fish health improve greatly on an exclusive diet of new life spectrum, many times over.
My practice, and the only one I've had continuous success with, is to qt all new fish, dip all new corals, and feed a varied diet with the majority of that diet being new life spectrum.
 

Paul B

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TheMeat, as I said, quarantining is one way to go and has benefits. I can only go by my experience and my fish have been immune from everything for at least 35 years. It has been called luck a number of times but if I was so lucky there would be a Supermodel ringing my bell right now and although I keep putting in a louder bell, I still don't hear it. Here is another article I wrote on this forum (and others) about immunity.
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/advanced-reefs/184191-discussion-immunity.html
 

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