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What is your norm for Nitrates?

  • Under 12.5 mg/l.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • At about 12.5 mg/l.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Between 12.5 mg/l and 25 mg/l.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Over 25mg/l.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
A

Anonymous

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My nitrates always come up as undetectable via my test kit (salifert).

So I don't use them as a measure for a water change.
 

mkirda

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Based on readings from normal reef values, your poll would better be done using:

Less than 0.05 ppm
between 0.05 and 0.1 ppm
between 0.1 and 1 ppm
More than 1 ppm.

12.5 mg/L is nearly unheard of in natural conditions, and would likely only occur next to an outlet dumping raw sewage into the sea.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

leftovers

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Based on readings from normal reef values, your poll would better be done using...12.5 mg/L is nearly unheard of in natural conditions, and would likely only occur next to an outlet dumping raw sewage into the sea.

ok

1. its a fish tank not the ocean

2. 12.5 ppm is not even close to raw sewage

3. many many many many tanks have 20-40ppm nitrates and have no ill effect what so ever

4. anemones and sps corals can and do live grow and reproduce in water with nitrates...

so lets have all the nitrate police coming running out of their little caves now to respond.....
 

mkirda

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leftovers":2kkdmxra said:
ok

1. its a fish tank not the ocean

2. 12.5 ppm is not even close to raw sewage

3. many many many many tanks have 20-40ppm nitrates and have no ill effect what so ever

4. anemones and sps corals can and do live grow and reproduce in water with nitrates...

so lets have all the nitrate police coming running out of their little caves now to respond.....

Nitrate police... Cute.

You know, I've thought the bulk of all reefkeeping literature could be boiled down to one, single, salient point: Keep your tank at or as close to normally occuring NSW levels as possible.

I daresay you cannot find a single reference to nitrate levels that high occuring in healthy reefs in any peer-reviewed journal.

Because...
12.5 mg/l Nitrate is nowhere near naturally occuring levels.
The literature that describes problems with high nitrates, levels above, say, 0.15 ppm, are numerous. That fish and anemomes can survive in such high levels is testament to their tolerances- It does not demonstrate that 12.5 mg/L nitrate or higher are even close to ideal. That coal miners can survive and reproduce while breathing coal dust doesn't mean it is good for them...

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

leftovers

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I'll make this simple : he asked what ARE your nitrates

Not: what SHOULD they be

again just because you have "high" nitrates relative to natural seawater doesn't mean start tinkering with your tank (the common mythperception)....if it's all healthy and fine leave well enough alone more people do more damage to their tanks adding and tinkering cause they are all upset that their nitrates arn't 0 ......all i am saying is big deal i dont know of any tank that crashed cause their nitrates were 5 or 10 or 40.

Nitrates, for the most part are the least of your tanks worries
 

Reefguide

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This is the second post of mine today where ppl started to get a bit touchy... Is it me or do we have a full moon tonight ;)
 

wade1

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On the topic of natural levels, oceans also contain an extremely dense assemblage of phytoplankton that greedily suck up those nitrogenous compounds... something we cannot replicate in the home tank. That alone could account for detectable levels.

As for what my tank is, its never read anything detectable... but does that reflect what really occurs in the ocean? Doubtful, even though it may read the same as some nitrogen limited areas...

Wade
 

mkirda

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wade":2zwi5bb1 said:
As for what my tank is, its never read anything detectable... but does that reflect what really occurs in the ocean? Doubtful, even though it may read the same as some nitrogen limited areas...

Wade

Hi, Wade.

I suspect you have not used an accurate low-range kit? The Hach kit will measure as low as 0.02 ppm. That is pretty low.

The fact that this poll is running with extremely high numbers as the low point is telling:

Sure, higher nitrates are tolerated by some species...

But these animals will be stressed at those levels.
There are a whole slew of papers that show problems with nitrate levels above even 1 ppm across a great number of species.

True, nitrate is generally a sublethal stressor. It should still approach NSW levels...

And, ya know? It ain't all that difficult to get nitrate levels down.
Functioning sandbed... A decent skimmer... Water changes...

There is a local clownfish breeder. His clutches typically return 40-50%. His nitrate levels are through the roof. Many of his clownfish are misshapen. After working with a local club member, they got his nitrates down to somewhere south of 10 ppm. His hatch rate is now 60-80% and the misshapen fish nearly gone.
Only difference: Nitrate levels.

Just because the animals tolerate it doesn't mean they like it.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

brandon4291

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This thread piqued my interests, especially because I use nitrates as a calculation for water change intervals. First I want to state some background about my reef setup. My systems are unskimmed and unfiltered, so nitrogenous wastes from crabs and various metabolizing organisms (including the minute amounts from corals not fixed by zooxanthellae) are processed solely by the surface area of LR, and the current provided in my design. My small reefs function within a nitrate clearance range because there is no where else for it to go, as it builds up over two-three weeks I take it out with large-volume changes. All my inhabitants have adapted to the changes, and I match water params perfectly (sg, temp) at each interval. The system in question is about 1.7 years old.

I commonly use about 3-4lbs LR per gallon in my unexported systems (with no filtration I need extra surface area) and I know its time to change when nitrates are up to 15-20 ppm. Freshly after a water change, they would be about 1-5 depending on the regularity of last month's feeding schedule and its accumulated particulate matter (future nitrate). I have done no studies concerning natural N03 levels, so for quite sometime I didnt know 15-20 was bad, actually I thought it was quite good considering a great LFS display ran at 20-30 continually! My question to Mike and others is: what forms of stress have you seen in the corals/inverts that are subjected to the increased nitrate levels? As far as I can tell, my hammer corals and SPS (should be touchy in an unbalanced system right?) are doing well, they have measurable calcification that states they are plating just like they would in an average setup. However, I have not had success with fox corals and purple tunicates over the long haul, maybe this is a sign of such stress. How can we measure stress in these individual specimens when they are subjected to params outside those of NSW>?

Very nice thread reefguide, archive material!

Brandon
 

Reefguide

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My clown survival rate are no better than I'd say 10-20% and as with my last hatch 0%. Nitrate level is a little above 12.5 mg/l. I just started soaking parents food in selcon to see if this changes but for now I'm not sure if it's Nitarte related.

Brandon: ;)
 

mkirda

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brandon429":3nwzdtp8 said:
My question to Mike and others is: what forms of stress have you seen in the corals/inverts that are subjected to the increased nitrate levels?

Factors noted in the literature:

Decreased calcification rates
Calcification problems: prone to breakage
Lowered to non-existent gamete production
Poor rates of fertilization when reproduction does occur
Greatly increased bacterial counts

That is in just five papers...

I think the way we would typically see it would be that the coral just dies for no particular reason.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

brandon4291

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Ive speculated and speculated about why I would have slower but consistent coral growth in the pico reefs, even with good Ca+ and Alk support. Nitrate inhibition never dawned on me, not even once. One thing I go round and round with people about is "that xenia is going to overtake everything" and "that sps will outgrow the whole tank in two weeks" but they never do. I have removed and fragged several SPS twigs and xenia stalks, but its never faster than every couple months which is not a large hassle. Its nice to get a good idea about growth-controlling mechanisms in stony pico reefs, this sounds like a very likely reason for slowed calcification even in the presence of bright light and calcium/alk support. Still, my corals retain color and are showing growth/polyp extension over the months so whatever stress they are under seems to be in balance.

I think another interesting poll would be to ask how many people with zero (standard test) nitrates have had or have algae problems.
 

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