[Wes]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul B Wes, I know that but I am not sure if bacteria can survive packaged that long. I know on the package it says they are in some kind of suspended animation but I have not researched it myself. I still think the sea has the proper bacteria in the correct proportions.

Alas, if only it were easy for some of us to get out to the ocean on a regular basis. Do you think the "store bought" bacteria above could be potentially beneficial to us who do not have easy access to "clean" natural seawater?

[Paul B]

I am not sure but I would imagine it is better than nothing

[ZBT3091]

paul, i agree that natural seawater is great for a tank, otherwise something like nutri-seawater would be useless and not have so many positives reviews (minus the costs). I do think that people who collect from the oceans themselves, especially new york, need to be mindful that nutri-seawater is extremely well filtered, which gets rid of beneficial bacteria, but also parasites and harmful bacteria. When collecting from oceans, we dont have the option to mega-filter this water, and therefore invite everything in the buckets we collect with into our tanks. All it takes is one parasite to wipe out everything in the tank and out of our control. Maybe you have just gotten lucky, but it seems to be working. Just my thoughts.

[Paul B]

Your thoughts are in many people's minds the reason they do not use NSW.
There are many tanks that are prone to paracite infection and as you say I may be lucky.
If I were worried about paracites I could heat the water slightly. I forgot the exact temperature that kills paracites while leaving bacteria alone but I could easily find that information.
I feel the benefits outweigh any risks. I myself use NSW all the time with no treatment which may somehow protect my animals from infection by somehow giving them some sort of protection. I have no other way to explain how I could do this for so many years and never experience a problem, paracites or otherwise.
I guess it is a personal decision.
Paul

[CHEMCHEF]

This is by far the most interesting post i have read thus far on manhattan reefs.
I have often wondered why people dont just do water changes with with sea water. I mean come on man we are surrounded by water on LI.
If you could Find out the temp that kiils parasites and leaves natural bacteria, that would be great, and I belive you are the same guy with the collection thread, in which you collect in port washington.
If so we can work something out if you want to treat your water with heat, to be on the safe side.
I have a thirty gallon steam kettle in my kitchen right on the bay in Port Washington + pots and burners that could accomodate 100s of gallons + fairly regular access to launch boats to collect the water
LMK

[Paul B]

Chemchef. 125 degrees maintained for a few hours. I personally have never tried this and have no Idea if it works. It is an old treatment of NSW advocated by Robert Straughn (The Father Of Salt Water Fish Keeping)
I have used Clorox many times for sterilization of aquarium water. My entire tank was treated with 2 cups of Regular Clorox in the seventees to rid it of paracites. Some of that same water is still in my reef. I just neutralized the chlorine.

Mr Straughn practically invented the hobby in the fiftees.
Anyway In my case I do not worry about paracites and I do want the bacteria. Both bad and good.
I feel (and it is only my opinion) that fish as well as us need to be exposed to these
"germs" to gain an immunity.
Of course it could kill all of your animals too.

	Manhattan Reefs Manhattan Reefs, the best aquarium community on Planet Earth!

[CHEMCHEF]

I think it is worth the risk.
If i start with small water changes, say a quart a week to start and i think things will level out over time.
It seems pretty silly to me to mix SW buy salt and all that when i am literally 20 steps from perfectly good natural water
I did wonder however about the clarity of the water in your system.

[Paul B]

Quote: I did wonder however about the clarity of the water in your system.

My water is as clear as Tahiti

[Wes]

FWIW, At 121.1 Celsius for 12 minutes you are considered sterile as per FDA regulation.

Different bacteria have different kill rates. If you happen to know the particular bacteria you intend to keep, I can calculate a table of temps and times that the bacteria will die off.

Wes

[CHEMCHEF]

Thanks