Ammonia in water-change water

[rgun2515]

I've been battling a trace of ammonia in my tank for a few weeks now. so far, I have only lost a few snails. I could not figure out what was going on. Last night tested my tap and RO/DI water. Both were good. I tested my "water-change" water bucket and guess what! The 20G pail must have a dead fly in it or something because it has a trace of Ammonia at the same value as the tank.

Time to clean out the pail and wash the pumps and heater... It kills me that I didn't check this earlier.

Do you test your water-change water for Ammonia before adding it to your tank? After this, I will...

 

[Deanos]

I haven't tested for ammonia since I cycled the live rock/tank

 

[MatthewScars]

I never have... I doubt a fly could have put Ammonia 20g worth of water. Maybe like 50 of them

Mix up like 5 gal of rodi and test it again. Maybe it leeched something in from the air? Guessing it was a fluke either way

 

[meschaefer]

I think Kathy had a similar problem.

 

[caad3]

Water Changes

I believe Kathy's problem related to how long the RO/DI water sat as it started to cycle. How long are you waiting before you put it into your tank? After I read Kathy's experience, I only wait one day after I mix the salt and in it goes. I use to wait a week or two sometimes.

I think Kathy had a similar problem.

 

[ZANYMASTER]

Strange,why would there be a ammonia spike in RO/DI water when it was put through a membrane to rid of that?Enlighten me?

 

[NYreefNoob]

could also be a bad batch of salt and kathys was from letting the water sit for several days, i personally clean out my mix bucket every time after use

 

[rgun2515]

could also be a bad batch of salt and kathys was from letting the water sit for several days, i personally clean out my mix bucket every time after use

Just cleaned everything. Pumps, heater, and pail. No dead fly...

The water only sat in the pail for a day or so, but there was always a few inches left at bottom the pump could not get. That along with a pump that was moved from my tank about 3 months ago and probably not cleaned well enough was I assume the cause.

Best thing to do is probaly as you said. Empty and clean the water-change resevoir each time you do a water change.

What ever I do, I will every so often check the water in the water-change pail for ammonia.

 

[KathyC]

Strange,why would there be a ammonia spike in RO/DI water when it was put through a membrane to rid of that?Enlighten me?

Nelson, what the OP did was correct. He started at the source of the water (his tap and ro/di unit) and moved forward testing from there. Should a person expect to find ammonia from those places, certainly not, but he was then sure of it.

Rgun, I'm curious, what do you mix your water in..a Brute container or something else?

For those curious about what has gone on with my issue...I cleaned that Brute container so throughly that I would have felt comfortable eating a meal prepared in there..2 days full of water with bleach, then dechlorinated, rinsed, dried, another day loaded with vinegar, rinsed, dried, then back to bleach, rinsed & dried again. Made up a small test batch of water (rodi w/salt) ..and still get ammonia in the water after 2 days (earlier than I originally thought). The pump was also likewise cleaned.
I am going to do the same process one more time as I picked up a new bucket of salt mix yesterday. I am not blaming it on the salt mix, but that was the only thing that was not changed. I remain perplexed :scratch:

 

[rgun2515]

KathyC - Yes, I use a Brute container.

I am "making" new water now. Will let sit for some time and test before I add the salt. If no Ammonia, I will add the salt and test again... Hopefully will all be OK...

I also got new salt...

That's really bad if there is detectable Ammonia in salt. What is someone peeing in the salt vats at the factory...

 

[rgun2515]

ok. water sitting with heat and power head running for a few hours and no ammonia. I added salt and will check again in the morning.

 

[rgun2515]

IT'S IN THE F'N SALT! Just was bored so I tested. Ammonia is at .15.

Just added salt 1/2 hour ago and ammonia was at 0.0 before the salt.

This is a different batch of salt than I used last time. Different supplier too.

So, do we NEED to use Prime all the time. I really don't want to add chemicals all the time...

 

[Killerdrgn]

bad batch of salt really. Please tell which brand it is...

 

[rgun2515]

Just posted this on the manufacturers site.

I have always used XXXXXX products. I have been the hobby for over 20 years and have never had a problem with your products. Recently, a number of containers of salt I have purchased (from different suppliers) have had trace amounts of ammonia (.15). Most recently 2 150 gallon pails and one 300 gallon Box. I have tested the RO/DI water before adding salt and it comes up 0.00. Then after adding the salt I see the values stated.
I would like to discuss this with someone before I stop using your product. Please contact me ASAP.
Thank you

Killerdrgn - I don't want to state the manufacturer just yet incase I am doing something wrong. If it turns out that I am correct, I will post the brand. Tring to be responsable...

EVERYONE should do a test of their salt...

 

[rgun2515]

Curious to know what KathyC found out...???

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Hi ;-) I remember reading KathyC Thread about that problem, but at the time I was to busy to look:google: for and give the answer...then I forgot (sorry KathyC for all the trouble you went to clean the brute container...can you ever forgive me...":happysad::cheekkissplliiisss"...)...any way you now brought the same problem and coincidentally a member of Reefforum.net just did the same in Reefforum...well the answer, or at least one of the answers is magnesium chloride...

A silent contaminant of commercial salt is
ammonia, arising from the use of magnesium chloride as a
principal source of magnesium. Many sources of
calcium chloride are likewise contaminated
with ammonia. Consequently, most, if not
all, brands of salt contain ammonia, usually
enough to yield between 0.1–0.8 mg/L in a
freshly prepared batch of saltwater. In most
instances, this may not be a problem because
the ammonia is diluted by the existing
tank water and the biological filter should clear it in
short order. But, it is definitely not a promotionable feature of
any salt, and, for that reason, has remained a well kept secret.

http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf

and here you can read some more about Magnesium Chloride

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)

 

[KathyC]

Swell.
Thanks for posting that Pedro.

The answer to you Rudy is yes, I made th test batch last night..in a DIFFERENT container (another food safe one that I've NEVER had any issues with and until now have used it exclusively for pure rodi water to add to my top offs).

And yes, I am getting a reading of about .15 ammonia...2 different test kits, API and Sera.
I am totally disgusted at this point.

After reading what Pedro posted hug, I now have to wonder about this portion of the quote:

this may not be a problem because
the ammonia is diluted by the existing
tank water and the biological filter should clear it in
short order.

Well, that is spiffy, but what happens if I mix my rodi water with my salt, put in a heater, and a p/h and don't get to change my water for a few days or a week???

Wait let me guess..the ammonia that IS in there IS continuing to multiply since I have just provided it with the perfect conditions to do so.
Seems I was right, it will cycle.
Not good. Way not happy at the moment.

..and I do not want to depend on my biological filter to 'clear it in short order'...

 

[rgun2515]

So is the answer to use something like prime on all water-change water?

Seachem Prime Fresh & Saltwater Aquarium Conditioner

Description: Prime is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. .....

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

So is the answer to use something like prime on all water-change water?

Seachem Prime Fresh & Saltwater Aquarium Conditioner

Description: Prime is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. .....

Hi ;-)

Not necessarily...I'm not a Chemist nor a wizard

but given the fact that water conditioners are also chemicals, one must bear that into account, so if the water conditioner in question is composed of monopotassium phosphate and sodium hydrosulfide such as this patented formula...that might not be a good idea to use...as other undesirable chemicals could combine or result from it...then again it might not be that problematic at all, but one should try to know as much as possible so here is more detailed information http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm (not all links work in that web page) and here is some more detailed information...still Seachem might be willing to answer that, so my suggestion would be for you to ask them based on this finding you made that you have ammonia readings in your newly prepared salt-water mix. Here you can read some more about marine water conditioners from Seachem (and I'm not that convinced of the product)...some more reading here.

Well I'll try to get more information about the chemical reactions and do remember that the information available on the internet might also be illusive so you should read and compare from other sources.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno

Post Scriptum:

After reading what Pedro posted hug

... Thank you for your kindness

 

[rgun2515]

What's killing me is I have NEVER seen this before. I still feel something is going on today in the manufacturing process... The manufacturer has not yet replied. I am assuming that Kathy is using the same salt as me. Tonight, I am going to go to petco and buy whatever salt they have and test. I feel it's a problem with this salt brand.

It would also be helpfull if others could make a small cup of saltwater with their RO/DI water and salt and post their results before and after the addition of salt to the water.