Small refugium - worth the effort?

[Keith P]

I hope this is the last "designing my sump" thread I have to type...

I'm drawing up a custom sump. Between my return chamber and skimmer chamber, I only have room for a 7"W X 12"D X 10"H fuge. Pretty narrow. This is for a 65G tall and a total sump vol of 15-20G.

I planned on only running Chaeto w/ rubble (w/o sand). Is it worth the effort?!? Can a fuge this small be effective?

 

[Breakin Newz]

It wont cause any harm to do it.. You have nothing too loose! I would do it no doubt..... Only thing is with 7" long you might get catch some microbubbles since the bubbles will pretty much instantly be sucked up by the pump which gives them no time to break up, don't gimp on a bubble trap! Give it a try!

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

It will work...something is better than nothing.....:splitspin..refugiums do not need to be big to be effective.

 

[meschaefer]

It will work...something is better than nothing.....:splitspin..refugiums do not need to be big to be effective.

I completely disagree, IMO a badly designed refugium can become a detrius trap lead to increased nitrates totally ofsetting any increase in pod production or nitrate reduction.

On my 65g, I was constantly battling nuisance alage problem until I got rid of a 10 gallon refugium. There are many others who have experienced the same.

 

[Wes]

I completely disagree, IMO a badly designed refugium can become a detrius trap lead to increased nitrates totally ofsetting any increase in pod production or nitrate reduction.

On my 65g, I was constantly battling nuisance alage problem until I got rid of a 10 gallon refugium. There are many others who have experienced the same.

I agree. The same thing happened to me. A small undersized refugium does more harm than good. It is much better to have no refugium and a clean sump

 

[Keith P]

The plan is ruble bottom and a spray bar to move the macro algae around. Would it really trap tat much garbage? How about a xenia only fuge?

Please help give me some ideas on how to use this space. I have even considered using the space for a small turf scrubber..

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

A poorly designed anything is bad. We werent talking about design ! we were talking about the volume here. Yes it is rather small...but it can work if you make sure it is designed right, proper flow, light. etc you can fit a lot of chaeto in this "small footprint". I am not saying that a larger fuge would be better...becouse it would be. in addition, I would of liked to see a deep sandbed as well 6-8 inches but the height wont allow that. But a properly maintained small fuge will help...at least its almost 20% more water volume alone not including the possiblities of "some nutrient export through chaeto" just my 2cents.

 

[Wes]

A poorly designed anything is bad. We werent talking about design ! we were talking about the volume here.

a refugium that is too small IS poorly designed...

But a properly maintained small fuge will help...at least its almost 20% more water volume alone not including the possiblities of "some nutrient export through chaeto" just my 2cents.

A refugium with 20% water volume wouldnt be bad. But 7"x12"x10" = 3.6 gallons about 5% of the water volume. It's not going to do anything but trap poop.

 

[bad coffee]

the extra water volume will be great. A place for cheato to grow without getting sucked into your return pump is great.

Rubble, sand ect, that's gonna catch detrius is bad. I'd do what you're planning (space wise) and just throw some cheato in there to grow. Make sure you clean the section out once in a while.

B

 

[Wes]

if im not mistaken there will be no "extra water volume" that space will be in there refugium or not? I say leave it empty, keep it clean, and you have more wiggle room if you decide to go with a different skimmer in the future that has a bigger footprint.

 

[NYPDFrogman]

I got rid of my fuge with a sand bed and rubble when I swapped over to the 450 from 180
I have a section of my sump about 25% of the size of the sump that has nothing but cheato in it.
easy to clean cheato growing like a weed no more cynao and micro algae in tank

I agree with bret no sand no rubble just cheato make sure you keep the detritus out of it

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

you know for some strange reason I wasnt thinking...wes is right...i dont know why i thought it could hold more water.....my appologies...did not compute in my head....wow not like me....:splitspin

 

[hediki12]

i think its worth it. i just think you need the right things in you fuge. cheato, a 2 or 3 member cuc. i dont have any parameter probs or algae problems. i have crazy pods in the fuge. when i feed the tank the amphipods and the hermit eats wat ever goes into the fuge. the 2 snails eat the algae. so i would say extra water wont hurt.

 

[meschaefer]

i think its worth it. i just think you need the right things in you fuge. cheato, a 2 or 3 member cuc. i dont have any parameter probs or algae problems. i have crazy pods in the fuge. when i feed the tank the amphipods and the hermit eats wat ever goes into the fuge. the 2 snails eat the algae. so i would say extra water wont hurt.

There is no extra water... in order to make the fuge he is subtracting from his "sump".

 

[meschaefer]

For those of you running a small fuge, say less than 10% of water volume in an established tank. Show me a picture of your tank (FTS without doing any "maintenance" before hand) and post all of your current water parameters (before the water change). That will show me... until then......

 

[Keith P]

Meschaefer, what's your theory on why a small fuge would cause problems?

I figure if your removing nutrients, it's a good thing. What negatives do you predict?

I was even thinking up cutting this small fuge in half again to make it half macro and half xenia.

 

[Killerdrgn]

Meschaefer, what's your theory on why a small fuge would cause problems?

I figure if your removing nutrients, it's a good thing. What negatives do you predict?

I was even thinking up cutting this small fuge in half again to make it half macro and half xenia.

It could become a detrius trap if you do it wrong. If done right it should be better than nothing.

 

[dabgood21]

It will definitely help! I have a 40 gallon reef with a ten gallon sump and it helps control my phosphates. I keep caulerpa, 1/2" sand, a few small bits of live rock and 1-2 blue leg hermits to stir things up. Creates a copepod community that maintains population in the above reef.

It's a crude but effective set-up: Plastic fish container box (from the fish store when they catch and bag your fish). I cut out its bottom leaving a small lip of an edge on the inside. Lined the bottom with egg crate. Drilled a hole in the corner of container to hold my tubing from the overflow filter in place with a plastic tie. Add floss, carbon and good to go! Mag-pump to send water back up.

 

[meschaefer]

Everybody has success stories but no pictures.

A couple of things need to be thought through. The original reason for a refugium was to provide an area of refuge where pods could grow unmolested. then someone got the bright idea that it could help with nitrates and phosphates with macro growth.

If it is to small, you are not providing enough flow through and enough space for macro to grow. The macro acts like a sponge filter and stops detritus, this is seen when you shake it out. If there is not enough macro, or it is not growing fast enough it is just acting as a space for detritus to accumulate and break down adding a lot more nutrients than it is breaking down.

I am not saying that refugiums cant work for nutrient removal, but the idea that any refugium is better than none is just wrong.


Lets keep those pictures and tank stats coming....wait a minute not one pic of these great tanks running fuges, nor a single run down of test results.......

 

[meschaefer]

It will definitely help! I have a 40 gallon reef with a ten gallon sump and it helps control my phosphates. I keep caulerpa, 1/2" sand, a few small bits of live rock and 1-2 blue leg hermits to stir things up. Creates a copepod community that maintains population in the above reef.

It's a crude but effective set-up: Plastic fish container box (from the fish store when they catch and bag your fish). I cut out its bottom leaving a small lip of an edge on the inside. Lined the bottom with egg crate. Drilled a hole in the corner of container to hold my tubing from the overflow filter in place with a plastic tie. Add floss, carbon and good to go! Mag-pump to send water back up.

I'm confused is it a sump or a fuge... not the same thing.


So lets get a Full Tank Shot (FTS) and a complete listing of tank parameters along with the type of test you use to get your results.