Cleaner shrimp eat ich or not

[reefnhard]

Will cleaner shrimp get ich off a fish and whats a safe remedy for fish corals and inverts...i think i may have one fish thta has a little ich problem

 

[seascape]

QT the fish and do copper dosing for it hardly no lite to any at all the light from the house is enough raise the temp up some about 80 degrees that is what i did and the fish is fine,on the cleaner shrimp never heard of it.

 

[NYreefNoob]

cleaner shrimp dont eat ich, ich is under the skin, they do help erradicate the fish of it but dont cure it. only way to cure a tank of ich is copper which cant be used for a reef or inverts, or a slow drop down and do hyposalinity, or pull all fish out of tank and put in a qt for 6-8 weeks

 

[Avi]

Cleaner shrimp will try to eat ick...and the fish that has it will try to make itself available for the shrimp to eat it...but don't count on the shrimp to be successful....

Maybe it does get some before the parasite is able to embed itself fully.

 

[KathyC]

The only way to eradicate ich from a reef tank is to remove the fish to a QT and treat them there - all of them. Just because you do not see it on a fish, does not mean the fish doesn't already have it, unfortunately. If you see it on one fish you need to expect the others have it, less than that and you are taking a chance that they do, and the result of an ich outbreak can be deadly, (but you knew that...)The main tank should remain free of all fish for a period of 6-8 weeks (8 ideally) so that any remaining ich in the tank is sure to be dead.
Inverts are not affected by ich.
Corals can possibly transfer ich to another tank (if you sell or give away any while there is still ich in your tank).

The very best advice I can give you is contained in the link below. Aside from being incredibly accurate, it also tells you how to treat ich (either by using copper ot hyposalinity, and it all gives instructions on how to set up a proper QT tank...
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

Please do keep us updated on how your fish are doing!

 

[Avi]

I've looked very deeply into the “ick issue" because my FOWLR has has repeated deadly outbreaks that I'm determined to put an end to. I'm not an expert on this...that's for sure...but I think that a lot of confusion about it stems from the fact that it may or may not be coupled with another disease...Oodinium. Oodinium is sometimes also referred to as "ick" though this might be an incorrect reference because the white spots that can appear along with it might instead be due to a secondary "ick" (Cryptocaryon) infection. Oodinium is also called "marine velvet" because of the kind of coating an infected fish will get on its body as a result of this deadly disease...an Oodinium infection will, very often, also cause an infected fish's stamina to fail so that it also gets victimized by the "ick (Cryptocaryon irritans, that's referred to in the article linked to above.) if that's in the tank, even if no fish had yet been infected by it before Oodinium appeared. Hence, the appearance of the white spots. But, it should be noted that an Oodinium infection of a fish may very well kill it without the appearance of any white spots at all.

IMO, from having had appearances of ick (Cryptocaryon) on a few occasions in my reef tank, which were always left untreated and the fish always recovered safely on their own, ick is not nearly as deadly as Oodinium is. And, it is possible that a reef, which is well-stocked with coral may have some kind of capacity or characteristic that lessens the vigor of a deadly ick (Cryptocaryon) outbreak.

But, if Oodinium appears in a fish tank, and there has been ick (Cryptocaryon) in the tank even if no fish had been infected, then it is almost certain that if the fish are not immediately treated with copper in a quarantine tank, the Oodinium will kill them or the ick will have time to appear and the the fish will succumb. It is that virulent.

So...from my experience...and it is significant given the repeated bouts I've had with both Oodinium and Cryptocaryon in my FOWLR (as opposed to my reef)…the most provident approach is to quarantine every newly acquired fish. Ideally, as stated in the article thta Kathy posted above,) for a period of six weeks.

Now, I know very well that this is a lot to ask a reefer when a new specimen is obtained. But, that period of time in a very mild copper solution in accordance with the manufacturer's directions, will assure that any infected fish will be cured of any possible Oodinium infection that hasn’t yet manifested itself, as well as any ick (Cryptocaryon) on the fish and so it will not ultimately be introduced into the display tank.

In the alternative, the fish can be placed in untreated ("copperless") water and observed for a period of three weeks and if no symptoms appear, it is in all likelihood uninfected and can be placed into the display tank...though, there is some risk that the fish has is carrying ick (Cryptocaryon) and will carry that pathogen into the display tank with it.


Placing the newly obtained fish into the "copperless" quarantine tank, on the other hand, will quickly determine if it has been exposed to Oodinium because it is, unlike ick (Cryptocaryon,) IMO, almost completely assured that the disease will effect the fish. (Some fish are not effected by Oodinium but will carry it assuring futute infections if that fish is not treated with copper.) If the “velvet coating” appears, the fish begins to “cower in a corner,” and the fish fails to eat when in the QT, it almost assuredly has Oodinium and copper treatment should immediately ensue or the fish will die. If none of those symptoms appears, then the quarantined fish should be observed for ick (Cryptocaryon.)


Because of the deadly jeopardy that a fish can be placed in along with all other fish in the same tank if Oodinium is present...with or without ick (Cryptocaryon)...I've concluded that the best practice is to place all newly obtained fish should be quarantined in a copper treated water solution as described.

 

[marrone]

I think you have it backwards, Ich is usually more deadly than Oodinium, Marine vevlet. Oodinium is also much easier to treat, as you can easily clear it up once you start treating with copper. Both ich and Oodinium are parasites and your fish usually has one or the other. What a fish can get is a secondard infection, which is usually very deathly and hard to cure. As for the white spots, that is just the end part of the cycle. The ich & Oodinium is living inside the fish and the white spots are the final stage before the ich falls off and starts over again. So a fish may have ich or Oodinium for sometime before you start to see the white spot or white powder look on its body.

As for which is more deathly, it depends on the strain you have. Some strains of ich are very deathly, killing fish very fast and impossible to kill, even using high dosages of copper. This type usually causes a "wipe out" in the tank. As for Oodinium, it's usually much easier to cure but because it covers the fish whole body they usually scratch more, which leads to a secondary infection.


QT all your fish is the way to go and the longer you can do it the better.

 

[reefnhard]

see the fish that has it is a catalina gobie and i started seein white spots on it after i put it in my tank but before this none of the other fish in my tank have had any problems they all healthy and aware this catalina wasnt scratching either but appearing by the look of its gills it looked like it was haveing trouble breathing properly....the pet store i went to has a medicine that runs about 40 bux it says thats its entirely safe to all live stock in the tank..i'm properly better off treating the whole tanke right?the pet store took back the catalina and is treating it for me amd once it recovers i have to go pick it up

 

[Avi]

I think you have it backwards, Ich is usually more deadly than Oodinium, Marine vevlet. Oodinium is also much easier to treat, as you can easily clear it up once you start treating with copper. Both ich and Oodinium are parasites and your fish usually has one or the other. What a fish can get is a secondard infection, which is usually very deathly and hard to cure.

I can't say that I agree with that, marrone...either from what I've read about Oodinium, which is generally acknowledged to be a much faster infection and recognized widely for being responsible for "wipeouts" which, while ick can be, it more often isn't....or from my own, sadly all-to-frequent, experience with the two different diseases.

I would definitely agree with you, though, that quarantining is the way to go...unless you're a gambling man or woman.

But, reefnhard, I'd urge you to save your money on that expensive medication that is said to be "entirely safe" to your reef. While I have heard that Formalin is effective in treating ick (Cryptocaryon) I'm confident that only copper, which is deadly to just about all inverts, is thoroughly reliable to kill it. If none of the other fish are infected, more likely than not, the problem is, indeed, ick (Cryptocaryon) and may not spread to the other fish in your tank at all. That is a common occurence when it comes to that particular disease.

Rather than bother with spending the money on that $40 medication which I'd bet the ranch is useless, use that money toward a 15-gallon tank and set it up for a quarantine tank for future purchases. It seems like, in the meanwhile, your catalina goby is in good hands being treated at the fish store.

 

[Domboski]

see the fish that has it is a catalina gobie and i started seein white spots on it after i put it in my tank but before this none of the other fish in my tank have had any problems they all healthy and aware this catalina wasnt scratching either but appearing by the look of its gills it looked like it was haveing trouble breathing properly....the pet store i went to has a medicine that runs about 40 bux it says thats its entirely safe to all live stock in the tank..i'm properly better off treating the whole tanke right?the pet store took back the catalina and is treating it for me amd once it recovers i have to go pick it up

If the water is above 70 degrees there is a good chance your catalina is going to die regardless of the parasite. That is a cool water fish and its immune system will not function at efficient levels in water warmer than its natural environment. Even in the most pristine system the warm water alone will shorten its lifespan.

My recommendation, take the goby out of the tank. By being immune compromised it is a sufficient host for the parasite and the population will blossom putting your other fish in jeopardy. JMO.

 

[marrone]

First you need to understand that it's not a disease but a parasite. Second when most fish get Marine velvet they usually die from a secondary infection, which is usually from scratching, and not from Marine Velvet itself. The secondary infection usually looks like the fish had Marine velvet, so you're thinking that what it die from. As for curing the two, ich and Marine Velvet, Marine velvet is the easy or the two.

As for Marine velvet being much faster infection and recognized widely for being responsible for "wipeouts, I'm not sure where you go that from. There are strains of ich that kill very fast, sometime in a matter of days, and wipe out whole tanks. Not to mention the amount of ich that maybe in the tank. Fish can get so infected by ich, in their mouth and gills, that it overwhelms them and they did pretty fast.


Formalin only kills ich that is showing on the skin of the fish, it does nothing for the ich that is inside the fish. Multi baths are needed and it's also very toxic, not to mention that a lot of fish don't do well in a 10 - 25 minute bath. As for Copper, it's pretty effective but there are strains of Ich that it doesn't seem to have an effect on, unless you treat at high levels, which are usually high enough to kill fish.

I'm not sure what you mean by the other fish not being effect and it not spreading to them. Anytime you have a parasite in your tank there is the possible it can, and will, spread to the other fish.

 

[cisco1717]

so if "ich is a parasite" then thats mean cleaner shrimp will eat it because thats what they do, what else would they clean? also like cleaner goby? tell me if am wrong.

 

[reefprobe]

Cleaner shrimp and a cleaner goby wont do any thing but they do look pretty !!

The fw dip works great and a formalin dip works good and there is another product that works awesome in a fowler and reef tank but I dont want to start a huge fight so I will leave that one alone. Good Luck.....

 

[Avi]

Well, there's no fight here, really. When someone feels the need to point out that someone else needs to "understand that ick is a parasite, not a disease:" they're just taking themselves a wee bit too seriously, even though they are trying to help others. The thing that's most important to remember, IMO, is that some things will help prevent deaths due to ick and Oodinium and others won't so efforts that can't be successful shouldn't be bothered with and valuable measures like quarantining new acquisitions is very important, even if inconvenient.