[Chiefmcfuz]

I just did a search using the MR search function and came up with 11 pages of posts that contained the word responsible in it. There are others here that are responsible as well. If you choose to spend less time here than others than that's your right but please don't make it seem that others that do spend every half hour here have nothing better to do. Lots of the questions you asked yourself have been debated here. The most responsible reef keeping method is to not have a tank and to encourage others to not have tanks as well. Researching the species you put in your tank before you buy them would solve lots of problems and if more people would do such then there would be a much lower mortality rate amongst livestock in this hobby. As far as local collecting I am completely and totally against it.

	Manhattan Reefs Manhattan Reefs, the best aquarium community on Planet Earth!

[georgelc86]

I think I just heard another window break.


I checked out those 11 pages and I am not even going to touch on that statement because I don’t feel like getting into a posting war on a subtopic that’s not even related to the thread. In the first 5 pages nothing talked about eco-friendly reefing except gimincorp’s thread and a post by another member. I am not here for conflict; I am here for knowledge and educated discussion.


It seems that we are working on two different meanings here. You refer to responsible reefing in regards to proper aquarium envoriment and selecting the proper specimens suited for that enviroment. I am going a step above that and talking about being eco-minded about the tank. I strongly believe the two are very closely related but yet have a major difference. As far as I am concerned, almost all of our posts and threads here contain responsible reefing. That’s why MR was created, yes? Since it appears you were only concerned about the first three sentences of my statement, I will say again before you possibly jump down my throat for a second time, I am not attacking anyone nor judging anyone. All I want to know is what our peers are doing regarding responsible reefing and if anyone has taken the path of what I call GreenReefing. In those first 5 pages, one member is weary of ordering from DFSmith because 3 of the 6 fish order arrived dead and went as far as saying that maybe shipping these specimens was damaging our reefs. And when you tack on their shipping guarantee its even more damaging because that second shipment of livestock may also perish. As far as I know gimincorp is the only member documenting this journey in maintaining an eco-friendly reef and I heavily applaud his efforts. I also respect and am on the same page with you in regards to local capture. But what I want to know is as an experienced reefer have you changed your approach to reefing now that more and more of our natural corals are diminishing due to global warming and industry harvesting. We appreciate our mini reefs, we appreciate our hobby, but does our great appreciation of this hobby also extend to international waters? Does it extend to places like the Great Barrier Reef? Does it force us to change our vendors who purchase livestock from heavily ravaged areas? Are we willing to pass on the temptation of housing a very rare species that no one on MR has just to make a small contribution back to the reefs? Did we not have a vendor a few months ago selling a white tip reef shark? Didn’t that vendor state “my customer base, business model, sales, etc are not the subject of this, or any, thread?” And then continue to say, “If you aren't interested in buying, please stay out of my threads.” At that time, after being a member for only a week, I honestly found those statements to be a slap in the face to our members. How has our mind set on that vendor changed? Do we conduct business as usual or do we deal with that vendor knowing that maybe that shark was to turn a quick dollar and in turn second-guess purchasing from that vendor. Who knows? Do our decisions affect our vendors, yes. But for those of us whom are eco-friendly with our tanks we would like to think that our vendor of choice would respect our decision and will cooperate and adjust its sources of livestock with its customer’s preference. It would be also nice to know if any vendors are eco-minded and chosen more eco-friendly live stock suppliers. Personally if I knew my LFS was stocking a good majority of tank-bred fish, fresh and marine, I would be loyal to that store. That’s what I would like to know Brendan, how our older more experienced reefers to our younger reefers as well as vendors, are contributing to help maintain our reefs not only local but also abroad. I am not perfect, neither are you or anyone else here nor do I care or will judge you if you really don’t give two shakes about our natural resources. It would just be interesting to know as a community of reefers what direction our mind set is based on what we know about our hobby and the origin of our hobby, that being the oceans. The only thing I regret from my posts on this thread was the use of the word taboo and I apologize for a poor choice of wording. By the way I saw some new pics of your pod, very nice. Did you choose a pod due to space restrictions? Is it easier to maintain? I also assume that your selection of fish is limited due to the size. Did you choose to go pod to keep your overall cost down? Was it an eco-friendly decision?

[Wes]

many MR vendors do stock tank bred fish, corals, and clams from ORA, etc..

MR encourages aquacultured corals, see "frag swap". So this guy only has corals that he got from other hobbiests...Not a big deal (no offense) considering that is where the majority of people here get their corals from as well.

In my opinion it is not very "responsible" to put 2fish in a 10g tank w/ poor filtration. 10g is too small for a clownfish, not responsible.

	Manhattan Reefs Manhattan Reefs, the best aquarium community on Planet Earth!

[georgelc86]

Morning Wes, I am actually applauding that he has corals only from members. I myself get corals from members only with the expection of a few pieces from our vendor Aquatic Express. I do agree about the tank size. Hey Gimincorp, any plans to upgrade the tank size or you maintaining a 10 only?

[gimincorp]

Quote: Originally Posted by georgelc86 Morning Wes, I am actually applauding that he has corals only from members. I myself get corals from members only with the expection of a few pieces from our vendor Aquatic Express. I do agree about the tank size. Hey Gimincorp, any plans to upgrade the tank size or you maintaining a 10 only?

I wish. My dream is 24 /34 gallon cube, they look nice and the size is right for my space. No, I do not have any plans for upgrade right now.
However I have a wet-dry filter waiting to be hooked up. Need to work out the kinks on how to get it to work (cycle breaks as soon as the air pipe is opened.)
Meanwhile yesterday I made DIY surface skimmer from HOB filter and some Eheim parts I had laying around. That thing cleared off the surface in less than a minute! It also added to the water flow.
Evening SPg was at 1.028 (due to severe evaporation) but after adding more water, the morning reading was 1.026.
Yeah, I also had taken that clam out as I never saw it open and I think it was dead.

[georgelc86]

You gotta show us that diy project you did, sounds interesting.

[h20 freak]

I don't really want to get involved, but by any chance can you tell me who is the one you gave the tank to breed bangais?I love those little guys but I Can't seem to find them tank-bred anywhere beside liveaquaria but they haven't been in stock for months.

[Wes]

ORA breeds them.

http://orafarm.com/cardinalfish.html

make sure you buy it from a trusted vendor who doesnt try to sell you wild-caught and tell you they are tank-bred

[georgelc86]

member by the name of matthewdmueller, he is going to start breeding the bangii in about two months. Had a chance to talk to him yesterday when he picked up the tank, great guy.

[jejton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chiefmcfuz ....... As far as local collecting I am completely and totally against it.

Why? I was at first but then I realized that, assuming the collected species are kept in the appropriate conditions, this is more eco-friendly than buying imported species as there is a much lower ratio of die-off since the fish go through one pair of hands and not dozens. Now if someone were to collect local species and keep them in inappropriate setups, thats just as bad as doing the same with any imported species. Furthermore, collecting tropicals that have been carried here by the current is as ecco-friendly as one can get in the hobby ( without leaving it ) since these fish will die once the water temps cool down in the winter as they are non-native anyhows.